God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability

[I_am_not_mafia]

Textbook example then ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2...ger_effect

That in no way can apply to me because I give the credit to God for my understanding of the scriptures, I on my own couldn't do such. I depend on the One who gave us His word to show me what it means in it's whole.

You have no way of determining whether what you think is your god is just you imagining it all or not. And your understanding of scripture that you imagine was given to by a god is very different to everyone else's understanding of scripture who also imagine that they are being guided by their god. This is because you lack critical thinking skills to realise this and consequently are a classic of example of the Dunning Kruger effect.

[Drich]

Sooo...a fortune teller? You meet a fortune teller? I know a woman in Alcoa who can do the same thing for 20 bucks.

Fortunes are parlor tricks. They're not revelations. Got anything more solid?

I never said three words to the guy up to that point. The details He had of my past what I was currently going through could not have been described better by my best friend at the time or even father. The things this man addressed where prayers I never uttered aloud. These were my burdens my cross items. and he went through them checking them off one at a time telling me how these world ending problems would be resolved. He was right in each and every case. Then He turned to the future. again not once asking me anything out loud. All ofwhich again is or was 'proof' for me and me alone.

Ooooh my bad. I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying there were no treatments or cures for AIDS or cancer, but it seems you were actually saying that you weathered cancer and an immunodeficiency problem with no medications  (why were you going to doctors then?). While that's impressive, it does in fact happen, and Christians/theists aren't the only people it happens to. An unexplained phenomenon does not give you license to paste in whatever explanation your book dreams up for you.

Neither does a plague of flies, frog, sores, or bloody rivers... in of themselves all can be explained. What makes these things of God is that they were turned on and then off on command.

Don't know which group I belong to, but I know now when ever science has someone like me 20 years agao who tested positive and then could not explain my recovery it's called an anomally. when there are too many of us to deny they give us a name so as to futher take God out of the picture.

That crutch or term "elite controller" are for people like you who would rather deny someone who has been documented with AIDS and now is free than acknowledge God. So rather than have you deny undeniable 'proof' people like you give a mirical a name and somehow it is supposed to be less miraculous just because someone thinks they explain what happens.
In the end I take great confort in the fact that most of you can not explain what happened to me and need a crutch like an elite controller or non HIV AIDS to explain away people like me without having to say the "m" word.

You mean "magic?" Is that the M word you're talking about, Drich?

You're very lucky to have survived all of that with no medical treatment, but without more information, I see no good reason to attribute those events to the god you believe in.

Again proof for me. This is what God did for me. Not for you. i share them to show the depth He is willing to go to provide us with the proof we need. God takes us out well beyond the help of anyone,so that we know when He brings us back no there is no one else to credit.

Sooo... you won a lot of fights, and you didn't let high school destroy your self esteem. Congratulations. Plenty of people do that without god's help, and so did you.

usally 4 to one. so no. lost a lot of fights. when you are out numbered you focus on the leader. EVERYDAY they come to fight make sure you get one or two good licks in on the biggest mouth, all of that adds up, then the leader of the group will want to pick a softer target.

Good thing I'm not being judged by him and being punished by iron chariots like those found in the story of the book of JUDGES

The text says god wasn't able to drive out the people of the valley because they had chariots of iron. Technology never was his strong suit.

... Or As chapter two explains God lead the Israelites to defeat because they did not follow his Laws. Judges 1:19 simply said the Lord was with them and they could not take the valley because the men there had iron chariots.

This means one of two things. the jews did not trust God and never tried to take the land or God lead them to defeat as chapter 2 describes.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I am a shit happens person. it is when there is "NO WAY FOR THAT TO BE REAL" do I attribute it to God.

So I'd like to introduce you to someone named David Blaine...

Blaine is a gimmick magician. I when I was 16 could do most of his tricks.

For a homeless black guy begging for change know the prayer I pray in my Head, for Him to tell me about the family problem I was currently in the middle of and to accurately describe a relationship I was in.. To tell me about what was going to happen and it friggen did/is going on right now!!!
That is a God thing.

Ah, I see you've met him.

To be told by a doctor you have AIDS and then it gets resolved after much prayer... (I know science wants to claim it) but in 1993 to the doctors it was a GOD thing.

I sing a jesus song and find 5 bucks... that's a shit happens. because some poor guy lost 5 bucks.

I simply give credit where credit is due, and I am blessed with more.

So how exactly do you quantify the line between luck and god's magic? What if you find  $100 instead of  $5? How bout $1,000? Does the amount matter? Does where it came from matter? How do you know?

If you find money, it's luck as it is someone else misfortune to loose what you found. If God has a stranger give you 25K dollar interest free loan to start a business and you can barely read and write on a 6th grade level that is provenance. If that business is the blessed/ doubles (every year for 15 years without any help.. again provenance.

If you say "discernment," so help me...

Discernment is the key to separating luck from provenance. God's "Prov" has a parable or biblical example supporting it. or there is precedent in scripture in one form or another.

So you can't be mistaken, huh? Well aren't you special?

Imagine a reward system that increases the closer you get the the God of the bible. and decreases when you stray from God.. How hard would it be to determine if one is on target or if one was 'mistaken?'

Ahh... no. Buddhism is not a religion in the sense that it does not worship a central God figure or figures. Buddhism is a saddah. there are not deity. Buddhism is a philosophy of life.
Westerns try and turn the teachings of buddah into a religion, but have failed. as it's core and purest forms remain apart from what defines a religion.
http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell03.htm

Sure, sure...and Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship.

Buddhism is a pretty direct offshoot of Hinduism, and they still believe in/strive toward supernatural concepts like karma and nirvana. Eastern culture historically doesn't recognize a clear line between philosophy and religion, and it's an extremely common trope for practitioners of any religion to insist that their religion is not, in fact, a religion. Plenty of Buddhist sects have stories and traditions involving gods, and the atheistic forms of Buddhism still count as religions under a more inclusive definition. Not every religion involves worshiping gods.

I knew you couldn't take my word for it that is why I gave you a link to what Buddhists think about how the word religion applies to their system of beliefs. But I guess that is not enough "PROOF" either. you seek one exception to the rule to justify what it is you already think.

I only point this out because when one searches for truth.. oneis willing tolet go what they thought of a group or idea when overwhelming proof says the oppsite. When search for the trth one does not seek out the exception, but the rule itself and acknowledge any acceptations.

Name one religion that has superseded the culture that founded it outside of Christianity. In that it is practiced today as it was when it was founded.

Ahem...that would be Buddhism.

Again... not a religion, and last I check schism far from it's roots.. in fact there are three major branches that almost teach the opposite things from one another. My challenge is to fine a religion one, that operated as it did when it was first practiced. While Christian has schism as well there are numerous denominations that seek out to practice the religion as the 1st century Christian did.

Also, virtually no religion is practiced the same today as when it was founded, Christianity included.

Nt true. we have several examples of fist century worship and prayer, which for some worshipers is the one way to worship God.

So how do you know your god is the good one and those others are the demons? Your war-mongering blood-tyrant of an imaginary friend might actually be the bad guy. Ever stop to think of that?

i have, and concluded that infact he is the bad guy, and I am good with that. Why?
I forgot the book, but it basically took the star wars story and told it from the imperial side. A galaxy where law and order reigned, where everyone was fed, no sickness no, one left behind everyone had equal access and an equal duty to support soceity. But the terrorist rebels who were comprised of drug smugglers, religious fanatics, and anarchists wage their holy war against the established government. and acts like the death star destruction were compared to 9/11 and pearl harbor type attacks..

In the end terms like 'good guy/bad guy' have very little meaning as all is subjective. when you do not have absolutes. Meaning with an ever change sense of morality/righteousness the term bad guy can very eaisly be aplied to anyone including god. Why? because the values that you use to judge can be influenced and change. If that is the case then those values are worthless. so too is any judgement based on them. So to call God a bad guy is the equivalent of the Taliban calling seal team six evil. I mean yes... to the taliban the heros who took out osama would be cnsidered evil, but consider the source..

Likewise God can be call evil but again.. look who is calling God evil.(those who do not want to follow God's laws.)

It is completely possible that You weren't mistaken, you just cant explain what or why you heard what you did. Or you've learned to dull your wits and senses to only focus on what is in front of you in the physical world..

Or I've realized that my phantasms and imaginings about a spiritual world were just that...phantasms and imaginings. I'm now content to acknowledge when I don't have enough information to explain something instead of filling in supernatural bullshit with no justification.

And if your experiences were documented somewhere? would you be content on remaining ignorant?

As it turns out, though, my religious and paranormal experiences aren't necessarily unexplained. Science has no shortage of possible explanations for why people might think they're having a supernatural experience when they're not, and those explanations are supported by far more good evidence than any religious claim I've ever investigated.

and if science could be used to explain or legitimize a paranormal experience?

...return no one evil for evil. Strengthen the feint-hearted. Support the weak. Help the suffering. Honor all people...

Until now, I've never realized how Justice League that sounds...

[Cyberman]

Except that this very intelligent creature doesn't give a flying fox about your magic storybook, and has said so multiple times. Whatever you have defeated regarding me is only in your head. Please leave me out of your fantasies.

Any scriptures you've discussed with me and misinterpreted them I've corrected you about them and yet you still refuse to see.

Actually, I make it a point not to discuss your scriptures with you, or anyone. I may bring up the odd reference here and there for various reasons, but to me it's like a discussion about Game of Thrones; uninteresting and pointless. The book is so bloated, so haphazardly compiled, any bit one cares to cite will always be negated by a different bit that says the opposite. Like matter and antimatter, that cancels out the whole thing for me. Hitting me over the head with the book can't knock me out faster than simply pulling out the least verse from it.

So basically, I'm pointing out that you're not likely to have scored a victory over me in that game, because I refuse to play it. That's all.

[The Grand Nudger]

i have, and concluded that infact he is the bad guy, and I am good with that. Why?
I forgot the book, but it basically took the star wars story and told it from the imperial side. A galaxy where law and order reigned, where everyone was fed, no sickness no, one left behind everyone had equal access and an equal duty to support soceity. But the terrorist rebels who were comprised of drug smugglers, religious fanatics, and anarchists wage their holy war against the established government. and acts like the death star destruction were compared to 9/11 and pearl harbor type attacks..

You've sourced a theologically important conclusion.......from star wars fan fiction.  

In the end terms like 'good guy/bad guy' have very little meaning as all is subjective. when you do not have absolutes.

You can't exhale a single breath without hedging when you start talking god, can you?

Meaning with an ever change sense of morality/righteousness the term bad guy can very eaisly be aplied to anyone including god. Why? because the values that you use to judge can be influenced and change. If that is the case then those values are worthless. so too is any judgement based on them. So to call God a bad guy is the equivalent of the Taliban calling seal team six evil.  I mean yes... to the taliban the heros who took out osama would be cnsidered evil, but consider the source..

aaaaand we segue from star wars fanfic, to taliban sympathizing....for christ.....

Likewise God can be call evil but again.. look who is calling God evil.(those who do not want to follow God's laws.)

What, do you imagine, is the logical conclusion of this appeal to hypocrisy?

[Cyberman]

Drich, if you saw two bears charge out from the trees and attack a group of people, and you had a gun, would you try to save the people? Or would you think it was "God's" will and not get involved?

[Astonished]

This is why, when you get down to it, no one is a true Xtian/whatever. You have to pick a yes/no answer to EVERYTHING and always have a good, solid reason to justify it in either direction. So when the word is so inconsistent as to render this bullshit idea of absolutes completely moot, you just look like an asshole trying to argue otherwise. But then that's not even necessary for a prick like Dripschit, he seems to excel at it without needing to appeal to the bible.

As for Gullible Cretin suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect, it's actually schizophrenia in his case, so it's far worse.

[Edwardo Piet]

Because you're god. Congratulations on admitting it to yourself.

Theism = self-worship

How does theism = self worship though? I for one certainly don't think I "worship" myself. I mean, obviously I can be selfish and self serving at times because I'm not perfect, but my faith doesn't teach me to be that way, it teaches me not to be that way.

I think the idea is that the God you think you worship is merely a part of your own imagination... therefore when you worship 'Him' you're merely worshiping a part of yourself.

[Catholic_Lady]

How does theism = self worship though? I for one certainly don't think I "worship" myself. I mean, obviously I can be selfish and self serving at times because I'm not perfect, but my faith doesn't teach me to be that way, it teaches me not to be that way.

I think the idea is that the God you think you worship is merely a part of your own imagination... therefore when you worship 'Him' you're merely worshiping a part of yourself.

But if he were merely a part of MY personal imagination, He would just be whatever I would have wanted Him to be. I wouldn't be part of a larger faith. I wouldn't read about Catholic teaching and Natural Law in an attempt to learn more about God. God would just be whatever I came up with in my head.

[Drich]

[quote='Drich' pid='1620538' dateline='1505478823']
i have, and concluded that infact he is the bad guy, and I am good with that. Why?
I forgot the book, but it basically took the star wars story and told it from the imperial side. A galaxy where law and order reigned, where everyone was fed, no sickness no, one left behind everyone had equal access and an equal duty to support soceity. But the terrorist rebels who were comprised of drug smugglers, religious fanatics, and anarchists wage their holy war against the established government. and acts like the death star destruction were compared to 9/11 and pearl harbor type attacks..

You've sourced a theologically important conclusion.......from star wars fan fiction.  

The point is that "good/morality" is subjective. God no matter how good is someone's Satan and vise versa.

In the end terms like 'good guy/bad guy' have very little meaning as all is subjective. when you do not have absolutes.

You can't exhale a single breath without hedging when you start talking god, can you?

The star wars example in of it self had nothing to do with God. the author drew no paralells between God and evil. It simple showed perspective and how it changes when viewed through the lens of one form of indoctrination or the other.

aaaaand we segue from star wars fanfic, to taliban sympathizing....for christ.....

Likewise God can be call evil but again.. look who is calling God evil.(those who do not want to follow God's laws.)

What, do you imagine, is the logical conclusion of this appeal to hypocrisy?

That "morality" is subjective to indoctrination. To which All have been indoctrinated by some type of societal influence. So rather than judge the deity in this case judge the societal influence/indoctrination.

---

Drich, if you saw two bears charge out from the trees and attack a group of people, and you had a gun, would you try to save the people? Or would you think it was "God's" will and not get involved?

It depends on the laws and who those people were.

Two strangers and the law allowed it I would help them..

It Kim jong un and Putin were the two guys being eaten... might lean towards will of God..

---

This is why, when you get down to it, no one is a true Xtian/whatever. You have to pick a yes/no answer to EVERYTHING and always have a good, solid reason to justify it in either direction. So when the word is so inconsistent as to render this bullshit idea of absolutes completely moot, you just look like an asshole trying to argue otherwise. But then that's not even necessary for a prick like Dripschit, he seems to excel at it without needing to appeal to the bible.

As for Gullible Cretin suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect, it's actually schizophrenia in his case, so it's far worse.

Here's the thing about Christianity most of you simply do not understand. Christ dying on the cross makes it ok not to be a yes or a no on everything. When Christ died for us the bar that each person know a yes or n to everything was removed. Now the standard is come with all that you can understand. what you get wrong will be forgiven what you don't understand will be filled in. There is no set standard anymore just do you absolute best.

[Harry Nevis]

I think the idea is that the God you think you worship is merely a part of your own imagination... therefore when you worship 'Him' you're merely worshiping a part of yourself.

But if he were merely a part of MY personal imagination, He would just be whatever I would have wanted Him to be. I wouldn't be part of a larger faith. I wouldn't read about Catholic teaching and Natural Law in an attempt to learn more about God. God would just be whatever I came up with in my head.

That would be true if your imagination was in no way influenced by your culture.  But it is.

---

[quote pid='1620573' dateline='1505483452']

Here's the thing about Christianity most of you simply do not understand. Christ dying on the cross makes it ok not to be a yes or a no on everything. When Christ died for us the bar that each person know a yes or n to everything was removed. Now the standard is come with all that you can understand. what you get wrong will be forgiven what you don't understand will be filled in. There is no set standard anymore just do you absolute best.

[/quote]
We ALL understand that this is what you believe.  What you can't see to grasp is that it is a ridiculous belief when you apply even a modicum of rational thought and critical analysis.  It all comes down to the fact that you believe because you want to, not because it makes sense.