Emotions are intrinsically good and bad

[Transcended Dimensions]

 I said that a blind person can't visualize colors, but can only think of colors.

But they can't. They can only think of the concept of colors at best. They can't think of colors themselves at all. Colors are visual and a fully blind person who hasn't ever even been able to see in the past is completely unable to visualize i.e. they cannot think visually.

I have had many moments in my life where I felt nothing but a positive emotion and, yet, I judged certain things as being ugly, disgusting, and the most horrible moments, things, and situations in my life.  From there, people would ask me if that is any real ugly, disgusting, and horrible value in my life.  I would tell them that it all comes down to my inner universe.  I would compare this state of mind I am in (which is just words) to those horrible miserable states of mind I've been through in the past.  The conclusion is clear as day.  Those words wouldn't be any real horrible, ugly, or disgusting value in my life at all.

So you're completely denying the effects that beliefs can have on emotions, basically. You can feel positive emotions and then convince yourself that things are horrible... and then that can cause you to feel horrible emotions. Just because things are not as horrible as you believe they are does not mean that your delusions cannot cause you to feel things that are awful. They can.

You, like Benny, are confusing epistemic and ontological subjectivity. Just because you cannot epistemically conclude something objectively does not mean that those subjective effects are not very objectively real in your consciousness ontologically.

You are doing the equivalent of someone who says that because emotions are "all in your head" then that means they're 'not real'. And the equivalent of a Christian who once told me that atheism proves that emotions are unreal because they are 'just brain chemistry'.

I have no idea what you just said.  All I was saying was that, if I felt nothing but a positive emotion, judged and believed something in my life to be horrible, but that did not make me feel a negative emotion, then these judgments of things being horrible in my life would just be words and nothing more.  I would compare this state of mind (words) to those horrible miserable states of mind I have had in the past (a negative emotion) and the conclusion is that words are just words.  They do not possess the power of those horrible miserable states which means that these words possess no real horrible quality to them.  They are just thoughts of certain qualities, but they, themselves, do not possess any real horrible or beautiful quality in my life.  That's the reason why it can only be my positive and negative emotions that can give my life real good and bad value since they are a real quality of good and bad in my life.

[Edwardo Piet]

I have no idea what you just said.

It's no wonder you suck at both logic and philosophy.

Although, kudos for being one of the first few people to admit that to me rather than pretending to understand. The kudos I just gave for your post is entirely for this admission here. The rest of your post sucks. I am awesome. Almost as awesome as I am obnoxious. I'm more enlightened than you are, neener-neener (it's true too . . . although that's a very low bar).

[Transcended Dimensions]

I have no idea what you just said.

No wonder you suck at logic.

Alright, I suck.  When I said that I had no idea what you were talking about, I had no idea how it was anything relevant to my post.  Nonetheless,  could you at least read the rest of that post because my personal experience is something important, powerful, profound, and I wish to share more of it.

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I have no idea what you just said.

It's no wonder you suck at both logic and philosophy.

Although, kudos for being one of the first few people to admit that to me rather than pretending to understand. The kudos I just gave for your post is entirely for this admission here. The rest of your post sucks. I am awesome. Almost as awesome as I am obnoxious. I'm more enlightened than you are, neener-neener (it's true too . . . although that's a very low bar).

I notice your edited post.  You are free to address the rest of that post and explain why you think it sucks.  After all, this is my own personal experience which is something powerful and profound to me.

[Edwardo Piet]

It's your personal experience that is irrelevant as it has absolutely nothing to do with your own argument.

What I said was very relevant. I am correcting the error you make when you say that your belief about emotions can't change your emotions. You said that you believed the world was horrible but you felt only positive emotions. But you talked like your belief about the world couldn't evoke negative emotions. They can.

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All I was saying was that, if I felt nothing but a positive emotion, judged and believed something in my life to be horrible, but that did not make me feel a negative emotion, then these judgments of things being horrible in my life would just be words and nothing more. 

This is both trivially true and pointlessly obvious. Hardly profound.

[Transcended Dimensions]

It's your personal experience that is irrelevant as it has absolutely nothing to do with your own argument.

What I said was very relevant. I am correcting the error you make when you say that your belief about emotions can't change your emotions. You said that you believed the world was horrible but you felt only positive emotions. But you talked like your belief about the world couldn't evoke negative emotions. They can.

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All I was saying was that, if I felt nothing but a positive emotion, judged and believed something in my life to be horrible, but that did not make me feel a negative emotion, then these judgments of things being horrible in my life would just be words and nothing more. 

This is both trivially true and pointlessly obvious. Hardly profound.

There are times where beliefs/judgments make me feel negative emotions and then there are times they don't.  I am referring to the times they don't.  It is during these times that no real bad value is in my life.  There are also times where beliefs of things being good in my life can't make me feel positive emotions such as during my miserable moments.  These are the moments where no real good value is in my life.

[Edwardo Piet]

I would compare this state of mind (words) to those horrible miserable states of mind I have had in the past (a negative emotion) and the conclusion is that words are just words. 

No shit Sherlock.

They do not possess the power of those horrible miserable states which means that these words possess no real horrible quality to them.

Duh. This is why I always say positive thinking is complete bullshit. As is mindfulness when it pretends that observing a state of mind can change that state of mind. It can't. A state of mind is a state of mind. Observing it change is not changing it. It's like when people think thoughts and think they are choosing those thoughts. They are deluded. All they are aware of is their thoughts coming in and out of consciousness. There is absolutely no evidence even subjectively that they choose their thoughts. It doesn't even seem to them that they choose their thoughts. They merely believe it does. Free will isn't even an illusion... it's a delusion.

And if you don't believe in your own self-talk then observing it would be pointless... and if you do believe in your own self-talk then observing it would be futile.

I observe my self-talk for pleasure or interest only. But it isn't my self-talk that gives me pleasure or makes me feel interested. That would mean that I was experiencing an effect that has effects... and my consciousness/self-talk doesn't have effects.

No, when I enjoy my self talk it is the self talk itself that is the experience enjoyment in that instance.

Emotions are conscious states that are completely useless and have no effects. But they are better (or worse) than useless.

  They are just thoughts of certain qualities, but they, themselves, do not possess any real horrible or beautiful quality in my life.

Yes. And what's moreover I believe that conscious thought is entirely useless. In that... it would have the same effects if it were unconscious. I'm an epiphenomenalist and believe consciousness is an effect that has no effects. My own consciousness is completely useless. When I seem to act upon my thinking I am actually acting on unconscious thought processes and my conscious thought is merely an effect that reflects that. Science also backs this up. There have been many peer reviewed experiments that demonstrate that our subconscious mind carries out our decisions before our conscious minds are even aware of them. This is also my personal experience. (I enjoy being mindful and I enjoy experiencing understanding how my own mind seems to work directly... as useless as I think my consciousness itself is).

 

That's the reason why it can only be my positive and negative emotions that can give my life real good and bad value since they are a real quality of good and bad in my life.

Well it's already completely obvious that that's all that can give you value. Most people just dispute whether that's 'objective' or not.

But again, it depends what you mean by 'emotions'. Emotionality covers feelings that are very real and give your life meaning even when those feelings haven't yet been categorized into specific 'emotions' and it's just some form of vague positive or negative emotionality without a specific name that is called a specific emotion.

[Transcended Dimensions]

I would compare this state of mind (words) to those horrible miserable states of mind I have had in the past (a negative emotion) and the conclusion is that words are just words. 

No shit Sherlock.

They do not possess the power of those horrible miserable states which means that these words possess no real horrible quality to them.

Duh. This is why I always say positive thinking is complete bullshit. As is mindfulness when it pretends that observing a state of mind can change that state of mind. It can't. A state of mind is a state of mind. Observing it change is not changing it. It's like when people think thoughts and think they are choosing those thoughts. They are deluded. All they are aware of is their thoughts coming in and out of consciousness. There is absolutely no evidence even subjectively that they choose their thoughts. It doesn't even seem to them that they choose their thoughts. They merely believe it does. Free will isn't even an illusion... it's a delusion.

And if you don't believe in your own self-talk then observing it would be pointless... and if you do believe in your own self-talk then observing it would be futile.

I observe my self-talk for pleasure or interest only. But it isn't my self-talk that gives me pleasure or makes me feel interested. That would mean that I was experiencing an effect that has effects... and my consciousness/self-talk doesn't have effects.

No, when I enjoy my self talk it is the self talk itself that is the experience enjoyment in that instance.

Emotions are conscious states that are completely useless and have no effects. But they are better (or worse) than useless.

  They are just thoughts of certain qualities, but they, themselves, do not possess any real horrible or beautiful quality in my life.

Yes. And what's moreover I believe that conscious thought is entirely useless. In that... it would have the same effects if it were unconscious. I'm an epiphenomenalist and believe consciousness is an effect that has no effects. My own consciousness is completely useless. When I seem to act upon my thinking I am actually acting on unconscious thought processes and my conscious thought is merely an effect that reflects that. Science also backs this up. There have been many peer reviewed experiments that demonstrate that our subconscious mind carries out our decisions before our conscious minds are even aware of them. This is also my personal experience. (I enjoy being mindful and I enjoy experiencing understanding how my own mind seems to work directly... as useless as I think my consciousness itself is).

 

That's the reason why it can only be my positive and negative emotions that can give my life real good and bad value since they are a real quality of good and bad in my life.

Well it's already completely obvious that that's all that can give you value. Most people just dispute whether that's 'objective' or not.

But again, it depends what you mean by 'emotions'. Emotionality covers feelings that are very real and give your life meaning even when those feelings haven't yet been categorized into specific 'emotions' and it's just some form of vague positive or negative emotionality without a specific name that is called a specific emotion.

The types of emotions I am talking about are the biochemical ones.  For example, if you felt sexually aroused, then that is a positive emotion.  I have never had any other form of emotion in my life.  They simply do not exist for me.  There is no other real positive and negative quality in my life besides my positive and negative emotions.

[Edwardo Piet]

The types of emotions I am talking about are the biochemical ones.  For example, if you felt sexually aroused, then that is a positive emotion.

That's definitely not necessarily positive. It's also a feeling but not an emotion.

  I have never had any other form of emotion in my life.  They simply do not exist for me.  There is no other real positive and negative quality in my life besides my positive and negative emotions.

I think 'feeling' is a better word if you're talking physical stuff. Sexual arousal, for example, is more than a biochemical feeling. It's physiological. It's also not really an emotion. It can cause emotions. It can cause an emotion like excitement. Or frustration (hence why it isn't necessarily positive). Or even anxiety (some porn addicts get off while shocking themselves with extreme porn and making themselves feel anxious for example . . . kind of like how someone enjoys scary movies or scary rollarcoasters).

I struggle to ever identify emotions but physical sensations and bodily urges are easy. Although I often mistake one for another I know at least I am feeling something comfortable or uncomfortable physically.

[Transcended Dimensions]

The types of emotions I am talking about are the biochemical ones.  For example, if you felt sexually aroused, then that is a positive emotion.

That's definitely not necessarily positive. It's also a feeling but not an emotion.

  I have never had any other form of emotion in my life.  They simply do not exist for me.  There is no other real positive and negative quality in my life besides my positive and negative emotions.

I think 'feeling' is a better word if you're talking physical stuff. Sexual arousal, for example, is more than a biochemical feeling. It's physiological. It's also not really an emotion. It can cause emotions. It can cause an emotion like excitement. Or frustration (hence why it isn't necessarily positive). Or even anxiety (some porn addicts get off while shocking themselves with extreme porn and making themselves feel anxious for example . . . kind of like how someone enjoys scary movies or scary rollarcoasters).

I struggle to ever identify emotions but physical sensations and bodily urges are easy. Although I often mistake one for another I know at least I am feeling something comfortable or uncomfortable physically.

All I am trying to say here is that, without those biochemical feelings, then there is no real good or bad value in my life.  This is the reality of my experience and not just some faulty logic or fallacies.

[Edwardo Piet]

That's definitely not necessarily positive. It's also a feeling but not an emotion.


I think 'feeling' is a better word if you're talking physical stuff. Sexual arousal, for example, is more than a biochemical feeling. It's physiological. It's also not really an emotion. It can cause emotions. It can cause an emotion like excitement. Or frustration (hence why it isn't necessarily positive). Or even anxiety (some porn addicts get off while shocking themselves with extreme porn and making themselves feel anxious for example . . . kind of like how someone enjoys scary movies or scary rollarcoasters).

I struggle to ever identify emotions but physical sensations and bodily urges are easy. Although I often mistake one for another I know at least I am feeling something comfortable or uncomfortable physically.

All I am trying to say here is that, without those biochemical feelings, then there is no real good or bad value in my life.  This is the reality of my experience and not just some faulty logic or fallacies.

Yes. That part of what you said is real and not faulty or logically fallacious. It's also extremely obvious and trivially true. Far from profound.

A lot of the other stuff you have said is faulty and logically fallacious, however. You're a huge fan of non-sequiturs and false analogies.