Thoughts on Hell?

[Astreja]

You are kidding right, because He is the triune creator of the universe who has brought salvation to all men through Jesus Christ.

No, that's an unsupported assertion based primarily on a book of Middle Eastern mythology.  No real-world evidence that your god exists, let alone that it created anything.

[Godscreated]

{My faith} will never come tumbling down because I know God is real...

There you go again, mixing up the words "know" and "believe."  *sigh*

There you go again not believing what I know.

In the end if you do not change you will see that I've been right in my belief all along.

I doubt that with every fibre of my being.  When you die, GC, I see you losing consciousness.  After your heart stops, the synapses in your brain will start to degenerate.  Within a very short time -- no more than 10 minutes of combined cardiovascular and brain death, I would surmise -- the neural network that makes you "you" will be damaged beyond any hope of recovery.  Your faith will die with you.  You will never see heaven.

The breath of life is the spirit (soul) given to Adam and all mankind, it will live on after my body has rotted away. At the second coming of Christ My soul and new body will be united and I will live in paradise forever, can't say the same about you at the present time. 

Yes I do get testy when threatened.

Then perhaps you should refrain from threatening others with the wrath of your invisible fiend, hypocrite.

I'm not the one who started this thread and because I joined the discussion it is only right that I tell people what the future holds. I wouldn't be very responsible if I just let it go. Sorry you do not like the truth but it's been presented. Besides I've never threatened anyone with hell because it's not my place to send them there, so you are wrong about me being a hypocrite.

I will always hope you will change your mind about God, but at the same time respect your right to believe what you wish, something you refuse to afford me and make it obvious with your threat.

Bullshit.  You clearly don't respect any of us, and you don't respect our lack of belief either.

They do. That's your opinion and I really have little respect for most of your opinions, but I do respect your choice to choose hell.

I see no reason to discuss anything with you because you have made it quite clear you would rather suffer and cause your children to suffer rather than to seek the truth about God. seems to me that is a petty thing for someone who is intelligent as you are.

That is possibly the most vile and unforgivable thing you have ever said to me, GC.  My daughter is an adult and quite capable of making her own decisions regarding religion, and your attempt to blame *me* for *her* lack of belief is pure libel.

No it's not, you influenced her by not taking her to church to see both sides. Don't get all huffy on me, you are the one who started the attack on my family, I'm just feeding you the same as you dish out. Kitchen getting to hot for you, hell's a lot worse, I would avoid it if you can't take this little bit.

And just for that, I hope the nightmares grow in intensity with every passing night, causing you to screw up at work, get fired for cause, and lose everything in your life that you value.

Want happen, I have the protection of God who has blessed me exceedingly and I thank Him daily for those things. Your nightmare threat has gotten you to this point not me, please take responsibility for you action and words, God will hold you accountable for them if you continue down this path. I'm praying you do not.

Do you feel lucky... punk?

 I do not need luck, I have God's grace and there is nothing else needed.

 GC

---

I live a very good life because of my relationship with the perfect God. Seeing how He is perfect there is no need in me accepting anything else and every reason for me to stand firm. I believe you can't stand the way I live because so much uncertainty is not a part of my life like it is yours.

Uncertainty is wonderful.  It's the motor that drives the imagination and it makes life exciting and worthwhile.  Your life sounds dreadfully boring, and I would never trade my life for yours.

You go on believing that, you and I both know you are putting up a smoke screen on this one.

GC

---

Lol, if your god knows what choice I will make, how can I go against it without falsifying his omniscience?

No answer, eh? Big surprise, there.

You can't falsify anything about God. Yes He knows your ultimate decision, yet He loves you enough to give you a choice and until you die you unlike God do not know what that decision will be.

 Sin has to be committed, it's not just hanging around. God doesn't define sin, sin is action contrary to who God is, this was so before creation.

GC

[bolding added -- Thump]

So sin is outside your god's purview? Your god didn't create everything? He doesn't make the rules, he only plays by them?
You've just asserted that your god's rules weren't made by him.

 Got proof of that I suppose. God created everything including you and God is in complete control of everything. God doesn't need nor play by rules, He is true to His perfect nature.

GC

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Do you really believe in the ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish deity named Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies?

You are kidding right, because He is the triune creator of the universe who has brought salvation to all men through Jesus Christ.

GC

No one named "Jesus" existed before 1630 A.D. and "Christ" is just a title that wasn't capitalized unit the 17th Century.  You're worshiping an imaginary character.

Matthew 15:9 (NKJV) = "And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

[Thumpalumpacus]

[quote='Thump']Got proof of that I suppose. God created everything including you and God is in complete control of everything. God doesn't need nor play by rules, He is true to His perfect nature.

GC

So if your god is in control of everything, doesn't that mean he controls my sin? If as you've just said "god created everything", that means he created sin too.

And if he doesn't write the rules of sin, as you've written earlier, doesn't that mean he's not in control of everything?

You cannot have an omnimax god and free will. There's no synchromesh for that gearbox.

I'd suggest you start thinking more, but I'm not in the habit of scattering pearls before swine. Just keep your superstition to yourself and we'll get along.

[Godscreated]

The atheist here are guilty of the willful ignorance and this willful act comes with dire consequences.

Unsupported claim on both counts. As was the accusation that atheists here consider willful ignorance criminal. Is lying, particularly bearing false witness, not a sin in your opinion?

I'm not lying that's your opinion and it doesn't hold water. The atheist are ignorant of the Bible and thus do not accept Jesus as their savior, true, and the Bible tells us that there will be dire consequences to disbelief, true.

What you did is against forum rules you used a post from pocaracas that came after the quote you used of mine. This is as dishonest as it comes and it seems to be a good representation of how low some atheist will go to win kudos from his fellow atheist. It also shows how dumb the who gave you kudos really is. This tactic is beyond shameful it is a deliberate attack upon another.

Which forum rule is that against? I may need a refresher. How is it dishonest?

Surely you are not serious, it's wrong in every way imaginable. I did not give that response to that particular post, that entire thing was fabricated from to different post and use as if I were the one who wrote that particular reply to that specific post. A lie is what it is and I have seen that done in the past and someone stated it was against forum rules to post an answer for someone else. It was done to deliberately misrepresent what I might have answered. Another's opinion of what I would have answered doesn't in the least mean I would have given that answer. If you can't see the dishonesty in that kind of behavior then you need to question your understanding of truth.
GC

The lie is clearly in your accusation rather than the post you are slandering. Are you having some sort of brain event?

  It's not me who has the malfunctioning brain, I explained the intended deceit and if you can't see it you have a real problem.

GC

[Mister Agenda]

If that's what you really believe, then you should report it.

Bringing up the supposed punishments after we die for not believing you is not only counter-productive, it's legitimately stupid, given that you know that the people you're trying theological intimidation don't believe in the thing you're telling them they should be worried about. It's like telling someone that if they don't believe in Harry Potter, they'll be sorry when they wind up in Azkaban. What kind of person does that?

[Astreja]

The breath of life is the spirit (soul) given to Adam and all mankind, it will live on after my body has rotted away.

Cool story, bro.  Needs more dragons.

...You influenced {your daughter} by not taking her to church to see both sides.

Oh, that's rich, coming from Mr. "I have the Truth™"!   Why would I deliberately expose a child to something that I consider to be a psychologically harmful mythology?

Care to enumerate how many non-Christian religious assemblies you've taken your children to?  I suspect that the number is at or very close to zero.  Do they know what a Hindu puja is?  Do they know the Wiccan Rede?  Do they know what the 5 pillars of Islam are?  Ever taken them to a Buddhist temple of any denomination?  Do they know how to perform a blót to Allfather Oðinn?  Do they know what the Guru Granth Sahib is?  How about the Daodejing?  Ever taken them to a smudging ceremony?  Would they recognize a Shinto shrine if they saw one?  Do they know why there's a little red shrine with oranges and incense sticks at the Chinese restaurant?  Do they even know what the Shema Israel is?  (FFS, could they even tell the difference between Futhark runes, hiragana, Chinese ideograms, Arabic script, Devanagari script and Hebrew?)

Let's try something simpler.  Have you taken them to a Catholic mass (Roman Catholic or Orthodox)?  A Unitarian church?  A Quaker service?  What do they know about Christian Science? Mennonites? Mormonism? Jehovah's Witnesses?

My parents were not overtly religious, but I would never, ever blame them for my lack of belief or hold them accountable for any consequences thereof.  I did plenty of research into religions over the past 50+ years because of my own curiosity and I can answer affirmatively to all of the above questions.

As I said, my daughter is an adult and is perfectly capable of doing her own religious explorations if she feels the urge.  The fact that you think I should have dragged her to a Christian church suggests to me that your own children are being indoctrinated into your particular beliefs rather than allowed to seek their own spirituality.  

Don't get all huffy on me, you are the one who started the attack on my family, I'm just feeding you the same as you dish out. Kitchen getting to hot for you, hell's a lot worse, I would avoid it if you can't take this little bit.

Stuff your hateful eternal torture mythology up your constipated ass, GC.  Your hell -- You burn in it.

Your nightmare threat has gotten you to this point not me, please take responsibility for you action and words.

I take 100% responsibility for all my actions and all my words and stand by them unconditionally.  I do indeed want you to fail, and there's not a lot you can do to change that.

[Godscreated]

The breath of life is the spirit (soul) given to Adam and all mankind, it will live on after my body has rotted away.

Cool story, bro.  Needs more dragons.

The story is fine as it was written and needs nothing else, it's you that requires more because you can't be satisfied with reality.

...You influenced {your daughter} by not taking her to church to see both sides.

Oh, that's rich, coming from Mr. "I have the Truth™"!   Why would I deliberately expose a child to something that I consider to be a psychologically harmful mythology?

The same reason I allow myself to be exposed to evolution, so I can discern the truth, I've looked at both sides.

Care to enumerate how many non-Christian religious assemblies you've taken your children to?  I suspect that the number is at or very close to zero.  Do they know what a Hindu puja is?  Do they know the Wiccan Rede?  Do they know what the 5 pillars of Islam are?  Ever taken them to a Buddhist temple of any denomination?  Do they know how to perform a blót to Allfather Oðinn?  Do they know what the Guru Granth Sahib is?  How about the Daodejing?  Ever taken them to a smudging ceremony?  Would they recognize a Shinto shrine if they saw one?  Do they know why there's a little red shrine with oranges and incense sticks at the Chinese restaurant?  Do they even know what the Shema Israel is?  (FFS, could they even tell the difference between Futhark runes, hiragana, Chinese ideograms, Arabic script, Devanagari script and Hebrew?)

 To bad you had to spend so much of your time looking all that stuff up because I have no children. If I did I would as I have with myself given them a book that shows the different religions compared to Christianity.  

Let's try something simpler.  Have you taken them to a Catholic mass (Roman Catholic or Orthodox)?  A Unitarian church?  A Quaker service?  What do they know about Christian Science? Mennonites? Mormonism? Jehovah's Witnesses?

Again if I had children I would have taught them about those different religions. I say different religions because as far as I know only one of those you mentioned is following the Bible, the rest play at what makes them feel good and feeling good is what they will have now, but later own they will receive a huge surprise they were not expecting.

My parents were not overtly religious, but I would never, ever blame them for my lack of belief or hold them accountable for any consequences thereof.  I did plenty of research into religions over the past 50+ years because of my own curiosity and I can answer affirmatively to all of the above questions. You think you can overwhelm me with all this nonsense, nope I do read about many different things.

As I said, my daughter is an adult and is perfectly capable of doing her own religious explorations if she feels the urge.  The fact that you think I should have dragged her to a Christian church suggests to me that your own children are being indoctrinated into your particular beliefs rather than allowed to seek their own spirituality. 

Children are vulnerable and should be protected from those things that can harm them, you and I see a total difference in what is harmful to children. Jesus told His disciples when they tried to keep children from coming to Him, it would be better for a parent to tie a millstone around his neck than to keep the children from me. Not taking your child to church and thus indoctrinating her against Christianity is exactly what Christ was telling His disciples. She most likely will never seek out God because of you and God will, even though you do not believe. hold you responsible.

Don't get all huffy on me, you are the one who started the attack on my family, I'm just feeding you the same as you dish out. Kitchen getting to hot for you, hell's a lot worse, I would avoid it if you can't take this little bit.

Stuff your hateful eternal torture mythology up your constipated ass, GC.  Your hell -- You burn in it.

Not my hell, I've chosen a different path. Hell is your highway you're zooming down and I promise you will find it extremely terrible.

Your nightmare threat has gotten you to this point not me, please take responsibility for you action and words.

I take 100% responsibility for all my actions and all my words and stand by them unconditionally.  I do indeed want you to fail, and there's not a lot you can do to change that.

  You are correct I can't change that, it's your road to travel and I'm thankful it's not mine. If you do take 100% responsibility for your words and actions then lay off saying I'm out off line when I dish your own approach back at you. I'm not the passive Christian that you might think I am, just ask the people in my church they will tell you I speak my mind and stand up for what I believe is right. I've said nothing to you that I wouldn't to anyone else. In my church when I was asked to teach a class many realized that they were going to face the tough questions, I didn't beat around the bush, I was interested in being surrounded by knowledgeable, strong Christians. I faced up to my short comings as a Christian and told the church about them and it was beneficial for me and so I taught what I practiced, ask yourself the tough questions and grow in your relationship with God, feel good Christianity has no place in the church.

GC

[downbeatplumb]

[quote='Astreja' pid='1641093' dateline='1508391373']

There you go again, mixing up the words "know" and "believe."  *sigh*

There you go again not believing what I know.

You do not know that god exists, you just really really believe in god.
Wanting something to be true does not make it true.

[pocaracas]

In my church when I was asked to teach a class many realized that they were going to face the tough questions, I didn't beat around the bush, I was interested in being surrounded by knowledgeable, strong Christians.

Let me guess, no one even blinked when you hinted (because you never told them that) that god could carry out actions in the absence of time.