What is your opinion about Communism?

[Anomalocaris]

No, it is continuously being litmus tested, mostly it has proven to be more adaptable to and competitive in post industrial conditions, to say nothing of post Victorian or post iron age conditions, than any alternative. It has proven that, if anything, its advantages has increased compared to the alternatives as technological and organizational progress enabled economies to acquire greater proficiency in adding value through services and information dissemination and as a consequence become less centered on manufacturing.

This does not mean capitalism will always remain the most competitive economic system Forever into the future, but there is no strong indication that any rival system have any chance to out compete capitalism today, nor that capitalism is truly in imminent danger of being undermined by its perceived inequities.

[The Grand Nudger]

-and if that's so, than it's continuously been shown to fail.  The only metrics by which it succeeds are self created, and even when it succeeds at those it fails the majority.  "Adding value" is a decidedly capitalist metric, it means absolutely nothing outside of the system itself. It doesn't equate to the best or most efficient use of resources..in any case. Becoming less "centered on manufacturing" is becoming less centered on productivity...and delving into exotic financial instruments, not exactly a smart way forward outside of a capitalist system....or in it.

Capitalism has already -been- undermined......what on earth are you talking about with future risks from alternatives?

[Anomalocaris]

It has been shown to succeed with the independent metric of continued survival and continued expansion.

You can measure it with any metric you want.  None of those metric will amount to anything if by that metric capitalism fails, but capitalism nonetheless survived and prospers in the real world, or if some other system shines by your metric, but is nonetheless unable to preserve itself against encroachment by capitalism.

[The Grand Nudger]

It has been shown to succeed the independent metric of continued survival and continued expansion.

To the first half...a presentist metric.  Plenty of things survived until they didn't.  To the second half...so what?  What does "expansion" mean to the average joe?  Nothing.  It was supposed to be a means..not and end..wasn;t it?  Sure, as long as we judge it by it's own scorecard to the exclusion of all others it wins the game.  Not exactly surprising, and not at all useful. 

You can measure it with any metric you want.  None of those metric will amount to anything if by that metric capitalism fails, but capitalism survived and prospers in the real world, orld if some other system shines by your metric, but is nonetheless unable to preserve itself against encroachment by capitalism.

The system of capitalism can "survive and prosper" all it likes, but if it does so to the detriment of..you know...people...it seems as if something may be amiss. We don't exist to serve capital. Capital exists to serve us. "Encroachment" by capitalism is no different than encroachment by a hostile military force. How do we react to that?

[Anomalocaris]

It has been shown to succeed the independent metric of continued survival and continued expansion.

To the first half...a presentist metric.  Plenty of things survived until they didn't.  To the second half...so what?  What does "expansion" mean to the average joe?  Nothing.  It was supposed to be a means..not and end..wasn;t it?  Sure, as long as we judge it by it's own scorecard to the exclusion of all others it wins the game.  Not exactly surprising, and not at all useful. 

In history of social experimentation, a persist feature are people who Imagine they can transcend the realities exhibited by present because they have the foresight to see a better future, only to look longing at a fantasy future they’ve only imagined, and whose fatal flaws they overlooked in their enthusiasm. while being utterly undone by the power of the existent present they despised.

There have been many more of failed dreamers who were undone by taking a preferred vision of the future too seriously than there are failed presentists who were undone by taking the lessons of the present too seriously.

You can measure it with any metric you want.  None of those metric will amount to anything if by that metric capitalism fails, but capitalism survived and prospers in the real world, orld if some other system shines by your metric, but is nonetheless unable to preserve itself against encroachment by capitalism.

The system of capitalism can "survive and prosper" all it likes, but if it does so to the detriment of..you know...people...it seems as if something may be amiss.  We don't exist to serve capital.  Capital exists to serve us.  "Encroachment" by capitalism is no different than encroachment by a hostile military force.  How do we react to that?

The difference is capitalism isn’t out to get you.  You are just collateral casualty.  Furthermore, capitalism allows a lot of those who otherwise might become collateral casualties to take advantage of capitalism if they have the flexibility and opportunism to benefit from it. So the value proposition for opposing capitalism isn’t nearly as solid for as large a segment of population as the theoretical value proposition in opposing a hostile military force that presumable is here to overthrow your way of life.

This is why those opposing capitalism often discover too late that there are far too many traitors in their midst for them to succeed.

[chorlton]

I "think" it's not as bad as the majority think.
Go to Vietnam or china & talk to young people who have travelled out of the country.

I spent a week with a Chinese lad in his mid 20s in Thailand once.
very highly educated/clever boy & spent hours online each day reading up about things he cant access (easily) at home.

His summary was that whilst not perfect for individual freedom it minimises what he described as the non stop bitching & unconstructive arguing that holds the west back a lot & causes terrible conflict between groups of citizens.

im no political expert nor actually care to be & the above is simply my personal experience however I feel that's what a lot of people lack v book knowledge

cheers

C.

[Anomalocaris]

I "think" it's not as bad as the majority think.
Go to Vietnam or china & talk to young people who have travelled out of the country.

I spent a week with a Chinese lad in his mid 20s in Thailand once.
very highly educated/clever boy & spent hours online each day reading up about things he cant access (easily) at home.

His summary was that whilst not perfect for individual freedom it minimises what he described as the non stop bitching & unconstructive arguing that holds the west back a lot & causes terrible conflict between groups of citizens.

im no political expert nor actually care to be & the above is simply my personal experience however I feel that's what a lot of people lack v book knowledge

cheers

C.

Except there is almost nothing communistic in the modern “communist” China, except the name of the ruling party which is preserved for tradition, and the retention of hammer sickle symbology for old time sake.

China today is in reality close to a giant version of the authoritarian statist corporatist capitalist state model that initially propelled other “Asians Tiger” - Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong - from rural poverty to the verge of full modernity from 1950-1990.

The ruling party kept the lingo and the symbology of communism because it can’t very well repudiate everything it claimed t stand for for 70 years without losing its own legitimacy.

[chorlton]

I "think" it's not as bad as the majority think.
Go to Vietnam or china & talk to young people who have travelled out of the country.

I spent a week with a Chinese lad in his mid 20s in Thailand once.
very highly educated/clever boy & spent hours online each day reading up about things he cant access (easily) at home.

His summary was that whilst not perfect for individual freedom it minimises what he described as the non stop bitching & unconstructive arguing that holds the west back a lot & causes terrible conflict between groups of citizens.

im no political expert nor actually care to be & the above is simply my personal experience however I feel that's what a lot of people lack v book knowledge

cheers

C.

Except there is almost nothing communistic in the modern “communist”, except than the name of the ruling party which is preserved for tradition, and the retention of hammer sickle symbology for old time sake.

which country did you visit to determine that ?


edit - you seem to have edited your comment whilst I was replying so forget I replied as your edited post makes the discussion moot

[Anomalocaris]

Except there is almost nothing communistic in the modern “communist”, except than the name of the ruling party which is preserved for tradition, and the retention of hammer sickle symbology for old time sake.

which country did you visit to determine that ?

China.

[chorlton]

ok, see previous reply inc edit

thanks