My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?)

[Minimalist]

I can't just be on here 24/7. I'll come on here often enough when the Christian forum gets boring.

What else could it be?  Xtians are naturally boring.

[GrandizerII]

I heard that they were doing away with the "from nothing nothing comes" principle. I guess they did then, sorry.

No, it's not that. Lawrence Krauss's "nothing" is not the same "nothing" that philosophers generally refer to.

(Or is it a mandella effect?)

The Mandela effect is bullshit.

I also didn't realize that physicalities were equal to abstracts like math.

This is in response to which point?

So then the universe either came from something, or it came from nothing. Sounds good.

Or the universe has always been. There's more than two options to consider, believe it or not.

Amazingly, it takes less intelligence to create a universe than it does a wooden chair.

Strawman. I don't see any atheist here agree that the universe was created.

All you need is gravity! (wherever that came from.)

No, all you need is everything that exists.

And I know the seeing is not required for the thing to be true. Just like no one needs to have heard the tree fall in the forest for it to make a sound. Truth is not dependent upon knowledge or belief.

Yeah, but you still need to determine that there was a tree that fell in the first place. The sound could have been due to something else. You can't make shit up just because you feel like it.

[SaStrike]

It's a fact that no one knows how the universe got here (that's to say it even had a beginning).

Claiming a God did it is so lazy though, requires no logic. When the thought occurs that this God needs to have some sort of proof for existence or (besides human fairy tales) or even an origin, the excuse used is just "it's beyond human understanding" or "not of the natural world" or something to this effect.

Well yes, great to admit there are things beyond our understanding, like you know, the origin of the universe? No? not beyond theist understanding i guess

It's like theists are selectively rational. When it comes to the specific religion they were brainwashed in, their minds just switch off. But any other religion can be picked apart with amazing critical thinking.

[CapnAwesome]

If your answer is that you just believe in an infinitely powerful god, then what's the point of making any sort of argument. That God could just be fooling us all. It's the ultimate cop out. You can jst use it as an excuse for everything. Why does the world look like it's old and naturally made? God is all powerful and wants it that way. What a cop out.

The argument YOU made is clearly a one for polytheism. All of the examples you gave involve not one creator, but lots of them. That's the argument you made and the examples you gave. Nothing you said supports a single creator.

To further your own argument, I can't think of a single building that was crafted by one being, or a single intelligence. It's multiple beings the whole way. So if you are going to use this argument, at least be consistent to the example that YOU gave, or find a better example.

You would think that if you believed in a singular god, you would at the minimum use examples that fit your case. But good argument for Hinduism. I'll look into that.

[Astreja]

I'm talking about one God who is not finite in His intelligence or power.

Got any evidence that such a being actually exists?  I don't see any evidence that points uniquely in that direction.  There are many possibilities, including my hypothesis that the raw materials for universes have always existed in some form or another.

[downbeatplumb]

I live in shoebox in t'middle o' road.

Luxury, I dream of living in a shoebox.

[possibletarian]

Ahhh, but was yours at the bottom of the lake.

I'm having one of those Déjà vu moments with the O.P. .. Bet you never thought of that did you

[JackRussell]

Gravity didn't come from anywhere; it's just the force of attraction between stuff with mass;

Best described at the moment by Einstein's General Relativity.

Cool stuff going on at the mo with regard to G waves.

But gravity itself is just a property of our universe.

[Minimalist]

Dan Brooks Wrote:

I'm talking about one God who is not finite in His intelligence or power.

Wouldn't that make all of us gods?

[Joods]

Yes. I am a god. Now kneel down before me, suckers!