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RE: Another hypothetical for theists.
March 23, 2018 at 6:36 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 6:41 pm by drfuzzy.)
I kept going back and forth between "huh?" and "interesting thought experiment".
So, we are certain that a deity created a planet? Just the planet, not the galaxy or solar system - just a nice little planet that's nicely suited to house it's fun new creations?
This . . . deity . . . is beneficent and has great skills and great knowledge, although we can't claim "omnipotent" or "omniscient" in the name of logic . . . ?
And these creations are "made in it's image" - whatever that image is? These creatures know their deity and the deity takes an active interest in their society? Hmm.
so just musing . . . (I still like the Deistic idea that if there is a god who seeded life here, we're a science experiment and god is "hands off", but)
Well first I think we have to dispense with that silly "Eve and the apple" nonsense.
I think the deity would teach it's pets from JUMP that killing each other and taking each other's stuff is BAD and would probably place some inhibitions in the creature's programming. (I wonder what would happen if it actually created a race of empaths. Cause pain to another, feel that pain yourself. But then, would there be any competition?)
I would hope that the sexes - whatever they are on this planet - are equal and that offspring are cherished and nurtured. I would hope that there would be plenty of food for all from a modicum of effort. I think that the deity would create it's creatures to die, yes, for many reasons, but hopefully might eliminate birth defects and most diseases.
IF humanity is representative of sentient life (yes I know that's quite a stretch), a wise deity would not make a perfect paradise. Why? Almost all of our technological advances from stone tools onward have been based on NOT being perfectly suited to our environment. Humans needed shelter from the elements and from predators. Where is the impetus to learn or adapt if everything is beautiful, you're comfortable and food is always there for the taking? -- Of course, this deity could have created comfortable creatures with raging curiosity that got bored very easily, that might work.  Maybe.
"God will judge you" would become a real threat that would actually happen in the near future, and the concept of hell would not exist. Would the deity want it's creatures to explore space? Would it actually teach or just guide?
See, it's a bad idea to get me started like that. I'll shut up now.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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RE: Another hypothetical for theists.
March 23, 2018 at 6:43 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 3:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think he set the universe (or whatever came before it) in motion in some way, and allowed nature to take its course from there. Though knowing exactly what would happen, and seeing that the good that would ultimately come out of everything would outweigh whatever bad there was.
Sounds like a research assistant told to replicate another group's artificial life experiment.
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RE: Another hypothetical for theists.
March 23, 2018 at 6:44 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 6:44 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:Correct! He foresaw everything and allowed it. That's my guess anyway. I'd like to hear what the other theists here think of it.
That just makes him look even worse
Quote:No. I will not grant that the world as it is is more likely under atheistic naturalism than under theism. The world as it is seems to be intelligible and reason efficacious.
Well of course you won't you need your invisible man to be behind everything no matter what . But hey "greater good because some reason because god "
Quote:I think he set the universe (or whatever came before it) in motion in some way, and allowed nature to take its course from there. Though knowing exactly what would happen, and seeing that the good that would ultimately come out of everything would outweigh whatever bad there was.
That makes him look even worse
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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RE: Another hypothetical for theists.
March 23, 2018 at 6:54 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 6:43 pm)Mathilda Wrote: (March 23, 2018 at 3:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think he set the universe (or whatever came before it) in motion in some way, and allowed nature to take its course from there. Though knowing exactly what would happen, and seeing that the good that would ultimately come out of everything would outweigh whatever bad there was.
Sounds like a research assistant told to replicate another group's artificial life experiment.
Ok
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Another hypothetical for theists.
March 23, 2018 at 7:00 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 7:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 23, 2018 at 6:43 pm)Mathilda Wrote: (March 23, 2018 at 3:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think he set the universe (or whatever came before it) in motion in some way, and allowed nature to take its course from there. Though knowing exactly what would happen, and seeing that the good that would ultimately come out of everything would outweigh whatever bad there was.
Sounds like a research assistant told to replicate another group's artificial life experiment.
Jeffs a low rent TA looking for something to write a thesis on.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Another hypothetical for theists.
March 23, 2018 at 7:02 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 7:06 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(March 23, 2018 at 3:52 pm)Grandizer Wrote: And you are changing the argument anyway, because the initial argument had nothing to do with the intelligibility of the world.
The intelligibility of the world and the effictiveness of reason have EVERYTHING to do with the argument. The underlying assumption of the thought problem is that there can even be some kind of world without God. It assumes that you can get mathematics, physics, consciousness, and a rationally ordered universe for free i.e. that it is possible for there to be something rather than nothing without God. I'm not even willing to grant you the premise of the dumb little thought problem (that a world without God is possible)...the thought problem you got from Richard Carrier.
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RE: Another hypothetical for theists.
March 23, 2018 at 7:05 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 7:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
LOL, refuses to engage, yells "squirrel!"
Tell you what, maybe you could ask Jeff for a little clarity, and relate his answer to us....or is that another thing he can't provide?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Another hypothetical for theists.
March 23, 2018 at 7:05 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 6:43 pm)Mathilda Wrote: (March 23, 2018 at 3:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think he set the universe (or whatever came before it) in motion in some way, and allowed nature to take its course from there. Though knowing exactly what would happen, and seeing that the good that would ultimately come out of everything would outweigh whatever bad there was.
Sounds like a research assistant told to replicate another group's artificial life experiment.
Why can't we be the first "alpha" experiment of God.
God then realised that there are way to many rogue variables at play for him to control that he wiped out the alpha, and created the "beta". Still not perfect. He then created heaven and hell in an attempt to control these rogue variables a little tighter?
He then sent in his own seed to try to "fix" his beta. It died horribly on a cross or something like that.
He then abandoned the whole project. He never tried spawning life ever again.
We really are alone in the universe!!!
Now god just plays with black holes to pass his time ...and a little bit of knitting on the side I believe.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Another hypothetical for theists.
March 23, 2018 at 7:10 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 7:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Or maybe he watches divine nat geo for all the awesome animal pron and death scenes. Hot monkey on monkey, plus lions!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Another hypothetical for theists.
March 23, 2018 at 7:29 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 7:02 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: The intelligibility of the world and the effictiveness of reason have EVERYTHING to do with the argument. The underlying assumption of the thought problem is that there can even be some kind of world without God. It assumes that you can get mathematics, physics, consciousness, and a rationally ordered universe for free i.e. that it is possible for there to be something rather than nothing without God. I'm not even willing to grant you the premise of the dumb little thought problem (that a world without God is possible)...the thought problem you got from Richard Carrier
Maaaaa...! The atheists are ruining the fantasy again! Make them stop!
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