Arguments for God in Quran.

[The Grand Nudger]

I am saying opinion of what is good is not goodness.

Hardly a revelation.

But the fact we all know some morals, means not only do we know God exists, but we know God's proof exists and we know it, no matter how much we forget and deny it and ignore it.

This shit just got shot down and you're reasserting it?  Talk about misguided.

[FatAndFaithless]

Can someone translate Mystic into english?  Or is it as incomprehensible as it looks?

I am saying opinion of what is good is not goodness.

Goodness is acting on love with insight to true guidance which requires proof.

Proof is by God's proof or otherwise there is no proof. There is but conjecture to what morality and goodness is.

But the fact we all know some morals, means not only do we know God exists, but we know God's proof exists and we know it, no matter how much we forget and deny it and ignore it.

I like to think I have pretty decent reading comprehension.  I can generally follow lines of reasoning, syllogisms, and implications.  I have no idea what on earth you're trying to say above.  Especially the part that I bolded.

[Mystic]

Love not acting to proof and insight is acting on conjecture.

What is more evil than to value truth and falsehood equality, good and evil equally, and mix guidance with misguidance?

You have to pick one or the other.

You either believe it's reliable and act on proof and vision or not, but don't mix it all up. Opinions with True vision, falsehood with truth.

It's rather a ugly nature when we mock around like that.

---

I am saying opinion of what is good is not goodness.

Goodness is acting on love with insight to true guidance which requires proof.

Proof is by God's proof or otherwise there is no proof. There is but conjecture to what morality and goodness is.

But the fact we all know some morals, means not only do we know God exists, but we know God's proof exists and we know it, no matter how much we forget and deny it and ignore it.

I like to think I have pretty decent reading comprehension.  I can generally follow lines of reasoning, syllogisms, and implications.  I have no idea what on earth you're trying to say above.  Especially the part that I bolded.

If there is no God,  moral judgment is not recognizing proofs of guidance, it's deciding itself, the person, and that is not morality or guidance. That is desire, nothing but sheer desire.

[The Grand Nudger]

Spoken like a person without an ounce of moral sense.  Let me ask you this.  Is it just your desire that makes rape moral or immoral? Do you think that anyone n this thread is basing their moral proclamation in this..on the basis of their desire to rape? If there were no god...do you think anyone would suddenly decide that rape were moral....leaving aside all the people who justify rape by reference to god..and if so.....who do you think that is?

Is god and your own shifting desire the only thing standing between you and raping the piss of out some poor girl (or boy..whatever)?

[Mystic]

To go the route, we all agree on a few morals is meaningless, if we disagree on majority.

And there is no point of goodness really if we equate evil, it becomes a matter of sticking to what suits us, and that is not goodness, but desire....

That is snakes and ladders, you go up then back down, up and down...

If you wish to move, you have to believe in provable pure guidance from God.

[Silver]

Aaaaaand, back to square one.

[Mystic]

Spoken like a person without an ounce of moral sense.  Let me ask you this.  Is it just your desire that makes rape moral or immoral?  Do you think that anyone n this thread is basing their moral proclamation in this..on the basis of their desire to rape?

Everyone relies on God's proof, but then rely on desires, to choose what they like of it, and not what they like of it.

The paradigm I am saying, if true guidance is to be achieved, it's not mixing crap with blessings, good and evil, and then emphasizing well I believe and do at least this and that.

It's to forsake evil, at least it's real forms, and not sins, minor sins are ok, because they are just missing the mark of God's Glory, which is forgivable, but not real evil. Real evil if you stick to it and you hold on to it as dear as good, good becomes meaningless, because it's just used to deceive oneself while doing evil.

I don't subscribe to the shades of grey are ok view.

[FatAndFaithless]

Christ...the last dozen+ pages have just been one big exasperated sigh. Ugh....

[Edwardo Piet]

Can someone translate Mystic into english?  Or is it as incomprehensible as it looks?

Alright, alright. But ONE more time:

1. There is such a thing as real magic.
2. Real magic would be from real spell-casting wizards or otherwise impossible.
3. Therefore real spell-casting wizards exist

Replace "real magic" with "real guidance" and "real spell-casting wizards" with "God" and you have his argument.

[The Grand Nudger]

Everyone relies on God's proof, but then rely on desires, to choose what they like of it, and not what they like of it.

You could only speak for yourself in this.  I don;t personally ask myself what "god's proof" says in -any- moral consideration.  So, lets hear it, is "god's proof" the only thing standing between you and doing something horrible, at present?  

-and what happens when "gods proof" suggests you should do something horrible..I wonder?  In my experience, that's when people start spontaneously exploding in crowded streets...forcing me to gun down one child in order to save the next twenty. I have very little patience for this kind of "goodness"...as you can probably imagine......