Soul - your views on it?

[Diamond-Deist]

It's not that I dislike you adding scientific facts to the supernatural DD, it's just I don't see how you can. The (biblical) soul is referred to as a person's phisical being as well as their metaphysical being. The two things make up us. If we're discussing the soul, then we need to address both. I know very well the physical make up of the body ...no disagreement there. I just want to understand how you dismiss something integral to the subject.

I'm not entirely dismissing it but as I believe in factual based belief's I can't completely bench science.

Now you say the biblical soul well I don't adhere to the bible so straight away we have a problem.

I don't care if someones a christian a muslim whatever your definition of facts must be universal, mine is science that is universal, I cannot say the same for the bible.

....... the issue still remains, if it is fact that you as a whole is an "us" then how can you have an individual soul?

Your mind is a survival tool which dies with your body and brain, no different than your sight, sense of awarness, smell and hearing .... it is only our vanity which makes us think we take these on into an after life, the Universe does not suffer such individualism well.

My belief is that we return from whence we came, we have all already been dead (before we were born) that's where were headed I have no doubts about that .... back to the atomic grave yard.

[Darwinian]

No, but there's a Salmon orbiting Jupiter....

[fr0d0]

So DD... what is the universal definition of 'soul' that you're using? My apologies... I thought you were addressing the Christian concept. I got the impression from your statement:

No I thought of this question myself obviously, especially as my mother is a christian and a big believer in spirits and going through my thoughts I realised one thing, it is impossible for us to have a soul.

But then you refuse to address the Christian concept

[The Grand Nudger]

DD only benches science when it doesn't conform to his beliefs. Otherwise it's generally accurate.

[Diamond-Deist]

So DD... what is the universal definition of 'soul' that you're using? My apologies... I thought you were addressing the Christian concept. I got the impression from your statement:
But then you refuse to address the Christian concept

I can't really do that.

I'm incapable of referring to anything originating from the bible as it's not a fact based idea .... sorry dude.

I'm addressing it as if it was real, I can't say yes we have a soul made up from the remnants (or before) of our mind because I know what our mind is and why it's there.

You would be asking me to ignore my common sense.

That's like me saying Ghosts right, I mean why the fk are they always wearing clothes? what the hell? If I ever saw a Ghost who was trying to scare me I'd say "Before you visit me again I wanna see you in some Prada or don't bother", if I'm having a ghost it's gonna be a fashionable one.


Bunny I resent that!!

[The Grand Nudger]

Hey, I'm just trying to help shine a light on the common ground between the two of you..lol.

[Welsh cake]

No... I don't believe in ghosts or spirits, and I'm not superstitious. I believe in our spirit, God the spirit ...sure.

Interesting, so you're saying we're all but a small part of God? Did I get you right or was that two different statements you were making? What I don't grasp is, if you believe god's spirit, unlike ours, is so damn powerful couldn't he have just created living organisms without spirits? Thus making your theology a lot simpler?

And if you're arguing instead all spirits came from god in that your creator concept basically decided at some point to separate a small part of its consciousness/spirit/being/essence into many different souls, wouldn't that make us living manifestations of this deity's schizophrenia? :/

Can you clarify this for me please?

[fr0d0]

So you can't address the topic you created DD? Ok.

Hi WC. I'm not really arguing a POV, but reflecting it. Albeit badly
Everything comes from God.
God put spirit in us. It is the same as God's spirit.
Yeah they were two separate statements.
I think only humans have spirits.
God could have done anything.
If we all have a spirit that is like God, that doesn't make us God. We are separate persons.
(hope that helped)

[Diamond-Deist]

So you can't address the topic you created DD? Ok.

Hi WC. I'm not really arguing a POV, but reflecting it. Albeit badly
Everything comes from God.
God put spirit in us. It is the same as God's spirit.
Yeah they were two separate statements.
I think only humans have spirits.
God could have done anything.
If we all have a spirit that is like God, that doesn't make us God. We are separate persons.
(hope that helped)

You know it didn't lol.


.... I'll get back to this I'm signing off for a bit, been on all bloody day.

[Welsh cake]

Hi WC. I'm not really arguing a POV, but reflecting it. Albeit badly
Everything comes from God.

I'm willing to accept that for sake for argument. Okay.

God put spirit in us. It is the same as God's spirit.

1. How? Did he split himself or create it from nothing?
2. If its the same entity/material as God what is the distinction?
3. Why did god think it clever to make me so weak that all I [we] can do with it is cling to existence? Why can't I [we] do simple things with it, not tremendous tasks (i.e create a universe) but heal sicknesses with "my [our] spirit"? Why was I given so much just created to be so powerless? This is even the case in other fictional works like LoTR for example. Are we the subject of some divine prank? An artist who deliberately draws derpy characters for his own amusement?
4. If man's spirit was created, whereas god's always existed before space-time, begotten not created or whatever, why do so many Christians argue its indestructible as well? Logically, they [we're] were created and therefore can be destroyed just as easily right?

I think only humans have spirits.

What is the difference between a man's spirit and/or soul and god's spirit and/or soul? Soul or spirit, I need to know your definitions because otherwise they're both overused meaningless terms.

God could have done anything.

Now I'm more perplexed than before. >.< Just what is your position in this debate Frodo? Maybe I'm not understanding you, or you're not clarifying your argument concisely for me?

Are you arguing that this god concept could have done it all naturally? You do realise the obvious implication of stating this? It concludes there are no souls, only God is truly "real". Its not quite a 'slippery slope' but you have to admit its basically you conceding and thus killing the discussion before its started.

If we all have a spirit that is like God, that doesn't make us God. We are separate persons.

Yes but then we're in danger of going down the 'we're living-manifestations of this deity's schizophrenia' route again by asserting this. You haven't established the difference between god's spirits' ontology and a humans' immaterial essence or whatever. That's the stumbling block of theodicy, it can't discern god's spirit [matter] from anyone's else's, including Satan's.

It also raises problematic issues on the matter in that if we're all god, and he judges us (him) then he is essentially condemning himself to hell which would cause a lot of controversy among your peers. Its like arguing that god was a mindless entity before time that at some point or other "gained sentience", and he fathoms he is all that is "real" in the abyss that surrounds him, everything else is merely his imagination. He's utterly alone in a void therefore now is on the verge of going completely insane.

If the writers of the Bible weren't asshats they could have played up god to be the most tragic and lonely figure of all time, one worthy of empathy and sympathy, as opposed to the uppish monstrous tyrant that was the canonical end-product we got stuck with.