porn and women

[Amarok]

Violent rapey porn doesn't "tell" anyone anything, neither did I claim It did. 

Well aside from the warning at the beginning where it specifically  says this is not real . 

From what it sounds like, I would assume this type of violent porn depicts women getting abused and assaulted.

 Which is a tiny percentage of porn .

Do you think watching this type of thing would prevent a person with sexually violent tendencies from rape? 

Yup because it's a vent 

Because thats what im arguing against. 

A very shaky position i'm afraid

[Homeless Nutter]

Believing demons exist, and believing mentally ill people are possessed by demons, are 2 different things.

Watching/making porn and believing women are sexual objects are two different things.

The correct comparison would be: people who think the mentally ill are demons, and people who think women are objects.

...NOT people who think demons exist, and people who think women are objects.

What's the difference, if it leads to torture of a mentally ill person... I mean "exorcism"? You can split hairs all you want, but the truth is - innocent people get tortured, instead of getting medical help, because of your shared belief in magical beings, despite lack of any evidence for such things. And - as I said before - many mentally ill people are being told, that their delusions might be real. Yet you have no problem with any of that? Why? Oh, that's right - because you were promised everlasting life, so a little collateral damage is acceptable.

If someone believes mentally ill folks are demons, you would be correct to say it can lead that person to treating mentally ill people like demons. Just as believing women are sex objects can lead to treating them as such.

And if someone believes, that demons exist and possess people, then they're more likely to interpret mental illness as such an occurrence, since the way their bible describes paranormal experiences is indistinguishable from a variety of mental conditions.

[paulpablo]

In my life of watching porn, I was never told women are sexual objects.

Violent rapey porn doesn't "tell" anyone anything, neither did I claim It did. From what it sounds like, I would assume this type of violent porn depicts women getting abused and assaulted. I'm still unclear as to what your actual position is. Do you think watching this type of thing would prevent a person with sexually violent tendencies from rape? Because thats what im arguing against. If you agree with that, then we are in agreement. I'm still unsure what your position on this is.

In relation to this I think there's too many variables to consider.

Porn definitely gives people ideas and influences people.  On the other hand I think has more to do with deeper reasons like how people are raised as to if they would actually rape a person based on the ideas porn gives them.  
I think statistics relating to rape and porn are pretty vague and come with variables like different times, different technology to catch rapists, the amount of rape being reported.

I watched all kinds of violent rape role play porn but only ever indulged in acting out rape role play and violent sex with the women who requested that. It's a pretty common fantasy for women to have in my experience, goes pretty much in the same ball park as being tied up and restrained.  It is pretty common in porn because the demand for it is pretty common.

[Homeless Nutter]

Violent rapey porn doesn't "tell" anyone anything, neither did I claim It did. From what it sounds like, I would assume this type of violent porn depicts women getting abused and assaulted. I'm still unclear as to what your actual position is. Do you think watching this type of thing would prevent a person with sexually violent tendencies from rape? Because thats what im arguing against. If you agree with that, then we are in agreement. I'm still unsure what your position on this is.

I don't know whether or not porn prevents people from acting out their fantasies in real life. It seems, that porn helps  preventing many people from having any real sex at all. But I haven't seen any studies on that subject and I'm curious what do you base your opinion on. Is it just your personal view, based on the feeling that porn is "icky"?

[Catholic_Lady]

Believing demons exist, and believing mentally ill people are possessed by demons, are 2 different things.

Watching/making porn and believing women are sexual objects are two different things.

Right. But you said this (my bold):

And some people believe, that women are sexual objects. So if you get to tell people that voices in their head might be real, even though that can worsen their potentially dangerous condition, why can't misogynists indulge their fantasies, disregarding the potential harm it may cause to some individuals?

....My subsequent posts have been in response to that, and what I've been doing is explaining why believing women are objects is not comparable to believing demons exist.

---

Violent rapey porn doesn't "tell" anyone anything, neither did I claim It did. From what it sounds like, I would assume this type of violent porn depicts women getting abused and assaulted. I'm still unclear as to what your actual position is. Do you think watching this type of thing would prevent a person with sexually violent tendencies from rape? Because thats what im arguing against. If you agree with that, then we are in agreement. I'm still unsure what your position on this is.

In relation to this I think there's too many variables to consider.

Porn definitely gives people ideas and influences people.  On the other hand I think has more to do with deeper reasons like how people are raised as to if they would actually rape a person based on the ideas porn gives them.  
I think statistics relating to rape and porn are pretty vague and come with variables like different times, different technology to catch rapists, the amount of rape being reported.

I watched all kinds of violent rape role play porn but only ever indulged in acting out rape role play and violent sex with the women who requested that. It's a pretty common fantasy for women to have in my experience, goes pretty much in the same ball park as being tied up and restrained.  It is pretty common in porn because the demand for it is pretty common.

I would agree with the bolded, btw. I'm not saying rape porn is some sort of sole reason that causes someone to rape. But I do absolutely disagree with the notion that rape porn actually helps prevent people who have violent sexual tendencies from raping. If anything, I feel it would serve as yet another negative influence on an already messed up person, not help them.

---

Violent rapey porn doesn't "tell" anyone anything, neither did I claim It did. From what it sounds like, I would assume this type of violent porn depicts women getting abused and assaulted. I'm still unclear as to what your actual position is. Do you think watching this type of thing would prevent a person with sexually violent tendencies from rape? Because thats what im arguing against. If you agree with that, then we are in agreement. I'm still unsure what your position on this is.

I don't know whether or not porn prevents people from acting out their fantasies in real life. It seems, that porn helps  preventing many people from having any real sex at all. But I haven't seen any studies on that subject and I'm curious what do you base your opinion on. Is it just your personal view, based on the feeling that porn is "icky"?

Ok.

And to answer your question, my opinion is just based on what seems to make logical sense. If Bob has sexually violent tendencies, it would logically follow that indulging in rapey porn depicting women getting sexually abused and assaulted would only fuck him up even more. At the very least I certainly don't think it would help him, as a couple people here have claimed.

[Homeless Nutter]

Watching/making porn and believing women are sexual objects are two different things.

Right. But you said this (my bold):

And some people believe, that women are sexual objects. So if you get to tell people that voices in their head might be real, even though that can worsen their potentially dangerous condition, why can't misogynists indulge their fantasies, disregarding the potential harm it may cause to some individuals?

....My subsequent posts have been in response to that, and what I've been doing is explaining why believing women are objects is not comparable to believing demons exist.

I think that's just semantic nit-picking. Believing that demonic possessions are possible means believing that at least in some cases a person displaying symptoms of mental illness is in fact possessed by devils. That's what the bible says and that's the position of your church. 

In the same way - a person can think that SOME women are sexual objects (you know - the "sluts" and the "whores"), but not the good ones, like their family members, or - I don't know - Queen Elizabeth II.

[Divinity]

To be honest, the bible objectifies women way more than porn does. I mean it literally states in there that we're property. Your good buddy Paul tells us we can't teach in church, and that our place is to remain silent. In societies where secularism is stronger, women have higher standing. And in societies that are more religious, women have lower standing. In some, they can't even drive.

The bible is also a very violent book. I mean before I read it (which was very late in life) I thought it had a lot of good stuff in it. When I actually read it, I was shocked by all the violence.

In fact I'd say the bible is violent porn in book form. It's not sexually explicit, no (well except the part where her lover's genitals were as large as donkey's). It's just seen as acceptable because God's okay with it.

[Catholic_Lady]

Right. But you said this (my bold):


....My subsequent posts have been in response to that, and what I've been doing is explaining why believing women are objects is not comparable to believing demons exist.

I think that's just semantic nit-picking. Believing that demonic possessions are possible means believing that at least in some cases a person displaying symptoms of mental illness is in fact possessed by devils. That's what the bible says and that's the position of your church. 

In the same way - a person can think that SOME women are sexual objects (you know - the "sluts" and the "whores"), but not the good ones, like their family members, or - I don't know - Queen Elizabeth II.

The problem is that you're trying to equate my beliefs regarding demons to the belief that women are objects. Believing that demonic possessions are possible isn't an immoral position. Believing that women are objects, is. So it's not a fair or equal comparison.

[Amarok]

And to answer your question, my opinion is just based on what seems to make logical sense.

You keep saying that

 If Bob has sexually violent tendencies, it would logically follow that indulging in rapey porn depicting women getting sexually abused and assaulted would only fuck him up even more. 

And no more logical that if bob has sexually violent and has i means of venting his violent tendencies( note most people who are into rougher porn are not like bob . And very violent porn is not the majority of porn) he won't be out doing it in the real world . That's just as logical. 

the very least I certainly don't think it would help him, as a couple people here have claimed.

But don't show a real reason why

[Homeless Nutter]

The problem is that you're trying to equate my beliefs regarding demons to the belief that women are objects.

No, I think the problem is, that you consider your beliefs as beyond reproach and harmless. I'm trying to show you, that if you're worried that some sexual fantasies may cause harm to vulnerable people, you should also be worried about exposing vulnerable and unstable people to religious fantasies, presented as unquestionable facts.

 Believing that demonic possessions are possible isn't an immoral position. Believing that women are objects, is. So it's not a fair or equal comparison.

Now - that really depends on the morality, doesn't it. Women being treated as property was all fine and dandy until not that long ago - and still is in a lot of places. Your bible contains specific instructions on how to properly sell your daughters into slavery and how to murder sexually unfaithful women, including rape victims. If Bob believes, that women are chattel, what will it do to him, when he reads, that they were created as an afterthought, specifically for man's pleasure?