There are no higher emotions/values

[brewer]

Rob, are you on the wacky tobaccy?

I think he's been hitting the Depak generator.

[SaStrike]

Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is sharing.

Spacetime requires exploration. This life is nothing short of an evolving quantum leap of interstellar spacetime.

Gaia will give us access to advanced grace.

Without karma, one cannot dream. The complexity of the present time seems to demand a refining of our lives if we are going to survive. Only an entity of the cosmos may create this fusion of power.

The future will be a sensual invocation of being. Soon there will be a summoning of flow the likes of which the dreamscape has never seen. We must learn how to lead archetypal lives in the face of turbulence.

Turbulence is born in the gap where choice has been excluded. Yes, it is possible to eradicate the things that can sabotage us, but not without insight on our side. You must take a stand against stagnation.

We are in the midst of a transformative condensing of divinity that will clear a path toward the quantum soup itself.

Humankind has nothing to lose. We are at a crossroads of wisdom and delusion. Who are we? Where on the great journey will we be re-energized?

Eons from now, we dreamweavers will vibrate like never before as we are recreated by the world. This circuit never ends. It is a sign of things to come.

much better

[ignoramus]

Rob, are you on the wacky tobaccy?

I think he's been hitting the Depak generator.

He's been hitting it hard! Call 911. I think he may have overdosed!...

[Angrboda]

I would metaphorically describe positive emotions as some divine life force or flow of divine energy within our conscious being.  This divine life force makes us alive on the inside since it makes our whole entire reality perceived as beautiful, good, and worth living for.  In other words, it transforms our whole entire reality into something amazing, beautiful, and great.  No other mental state can do this.  All other mental states in of themselves are "dead" and "empty" since they do not do this.  I would also describe positive emotions as being a divine inner light or inner fruit.  If you hear the word 'fruitful," then that means filled with inner positivity.  It means you are in a mental state where you truly experience positivity in your life which is no different than, again, saying that you are perceiving things from a positive perspective (i.e. perceiving things as joyful, beautiful, and good). 

---

When you feel positive emotions, it's as though you are filled with the force of the light and, when you feel negative emotions such as misery and despair, it's as though you are filled with the force of darkness.  The goal is to become the being of light by pursing the force of light to make your life beautiful and to avoid the inner darkness which makes your life bad, horrible, and disgusting.  When we lose our ability to feel positive emotions, it's as though we have become dead on the inside since we lose that force of light within us.  Also, songs have two aspects to them which would be the lyrics and the emotion.  If you just had the lyrics without the emotion, then those words would be spoken like a machine.  These words need something more in order for them to possess true beauty, joy, and greatness.  They require a profoundly beautiful, joyful, divine life force to them. 

This life force breathes the power of joy, beauty, and greatness to these lyrics.  That life force would be the positive emotions.  Lyrics also require the force of darkness in order for them to possess the true power of misery, despair, hate, and suffering.  That force of darkness would be the negative emotions.  But if you had the emotion without the lyrics or let's pretend the lyrics were gibberish, then those songs would still possess the power of beauty, joy, misery, suffering, etc.  This proves here that it's about the emotion and not just the words alone.  If we as human beings lived our lives by words alone without our emotions, then we would be like droids.  We would be dead on the inside and words, our character, intellect, and morality alone would not bring our lives any real value.  Our emotions are that higher power or force within us that brings the value to life in our lives.

Intellect, morality, and character is just words, intentions, and ideas in our minds.  None of these things can allow me to perceive/experience the sheer beauty and joy my positive emotions have brought my life and neither can it allow me to experience what I've experienced through my miserable struggles.  Those hopeless and miserable states I've been through were such horrible states that no words, ideas, etc. can allow me to experience something so horrible.  Lastly, as for your question, people can act as though certain things are real and claim these things are real.  For example, people have acted and claimed Thor was real.  But that doesn't mean Thor was real.  So, just because people act as though value independent of positive emotions is real and claim it's real does not mean it's actually real.  You cannot trust a person's claim just because they act as though it's real and claim it's real.  That's the reason why I cannot trust people who claim that they perceived their lives as something beautiful and great despite their misery and inability to feel positive emotions.

---

[LadyForCamus]

Value is not an objective thing outside of yourself that you perceive; it’s a subjective experience that you have. as are emotions.  “Good value” and “bad value” are incoherent concepts.  Value is described in degrees or quantity, not quality.  I value my children the most.  I value my pets, but not as much as I value my children.  I don’t value the Carpenter ant’s nest in my basement at all.  Zero value.  Is it true that we tend to value the things in life that reward us with good, positive feelings and experiences?  Of course. But it doesn’t follow that humans are unable to assign subjective value to certain things based on some arbitrary set of criteria, or that someone’s subjective value judgement of a thing is somehow not real.  You have no access to another person’s feelings and experiences, and while you might not be able to understand how someone could value, say, a terrible experience they had, that doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t or can’t.  Many people value negative experiences for what those experiences taught them about life, and about themselves.  Who are you to tell those people their feelings are inauthentic?  

I’ll ask you again; please provide an example of an emotion or a value jusgement that is, “not real”.

---

This is simply not true.  Why would he be doing these deeds at all if he wasn’t experiencing positive emotions as the result; if he did not consider his actions valuable?

I would metaphorically describe positive emotions as some divine life force or flow of divine energy within our conscious being.  This divine life force makes us alive on the inside since it makes our whole entire reality perceived as beautiful, good, and worth living for.  In other words, it transforms our whole entire reality into something amazing, beautiful, and great.  No other mental state can do this.  All other mental states in of themselves are "dead" and "empty" since they do not do this.  I would also describe positive emotions as being a divine inner light or inner fruit.  If you hear the word 'fruitful," then that means filled with inner positivity.  It means you are in a mental state where you truly experience positivity in your life which is no different than, again, saying that you are perceiving things from a positive perspective (i.e. perceiving things as joyful, beautiful, and good). 

When you feel positive emotions, it's as though you are filled with the force of the light and, when you feel negative emotions such as misery and despair, it's as though you are filled with the force of darkness.  The goal is to become the being of light by pursing the force of light to make your life beautiful and to avoid the inner darkness which makes your life bad, horrible, and disgusting.  When we lose our ability to feel positive emotions, it's as though we have become dead on the inside since we lose that force of light within us.  Also, songs have two aspects to them which would be the lyrics and the emotion.  If you just had the lyrics without the emotion, then those words would be spoken like a machine.  These words need something more in order for them to possess true beauty, joy, and greatness.  They require a profoundly beautiful, joyful, divine life force to them. 

This life force breathes the power of joy, beauty, and greatness to these lyrics.  That life force would be the positive emotions.  Lyrics also require the force of darkness in order for them to possess the true power of misery, despair, hate, and suffering.  That force of darkness would be the negative emotions.  But if you had the emotion without the lyrics or let's pretend the lyrics were gibberish, then those songs would still possess the power of beauty, joy, misery, suffering, etc.  This proves here that it's about the emotion and not just the words alone.  If we as human beings lived our lives by words alone without our emotions, then we would be like droids.  We would be dead on the inside and words, our character, intellect, and morality alone would not bring our lives any real value.  Our emotions are that higher power or force within us that brings the value to life in our lives.

Intellect, morality, and character is just words, intentions, and ideas in our minds.  None of these things can allow me to perceive/experience the sheer beauty and joy my positive emotions have brought my life and neither can it allow me to experience what I've experienced through my miserable struggles.  Those hopeless and miserable states I've been through were such horrible states that no words, ideas, etc. can allow me to experience something so horrible.  Lastly, as for your question, people can act as though certain things are real and claim these things are real.  For example, people have acted and claimed Thor was real.  But that doesn't mean Thor was real.  So, just because people act as though value independent of positive emotions is real and claim it's real does not mean it's actually real.  You cannot trust a person's claim just because they act as though it's real and claim it's real.  That's the reason why I cannot trust people who claim that they perceived their lives as something beautiful and great despite their misery and inability to feel positive emotions.

You’re a nut job.  Go peddle your Deepak Chopra BS elsewhere.  You clearly aren’t interested in actual discussion.

[Transcended Dimensions]

I would metaphorically describe positive emotions as some divine life force or flow of divine energy within our conscious being.  This divine life force makes us alive on the inside since it makes our whole entire reality perceived as beautiful, good, and worth living for.  In other words, it transforms our whole entire reality into something amazing, beautiful, and great.  No other mental state can do this.  All other mental states in of themselves are "dead" and "empty" since they do not do this.  I would also describe positive emotions as being a divine inner light or inner fruit.  If you hear the word 'fruitful," then that means filled with inner positivity.  It means you are in a mental state where you truly experience positivity in your life which is no different than, again, saying that you are perceiving things from a positive perspective (i.e. perceiving things as joyful, beautiful, and good). 

When you feel positive emotions, it's as though you are filled with the force of the light and, when you feel negative emotions such as misery and despair, it's as though you are filled with the force of darkness.  The goal is to become the being of light by pursing the force of light to make your life beautiful and to avoid the inner darkness which makes your life bad, horrible, and disgusting.  When we lose our ability to feel positive emotions, it's as though we have become dead on the inside since we lose that force of light within us.  Also, songs have two aspects to them which would be the lyrics and the emotion.  If you just had the lyrics without the emotion, then those words would be spoken like a machine.  These words need something more in order for them to possess true beauty, joy, and greatness.  They require a profoundly beautiful, joyful, divine life force to them. 

This life force breathes the power of joy, beauty, and greatness to these lyrics.  That life force would be the positive emotions.  Lyrics also require the force of darkness in order for them to possess the true power of misery, despair, hate, and suffering.  That force of darkness would be the negative emotions.  But if you had the emotion without the lyrics or let's pretend the lyrics were gibberish, then those songs would still possess the power of beauty, joy, misery, suffering, etc.  This proves here that it's about the emotion and not just the words alone.  If we as human beings lived our lives by words alone without our emotions, then we would be like droids.  We would be dead on the inside and words, our character, intellect, and morality alone would not bring our lives any real value.  Our emotions are that higher power or force within us that brings the value to life in our lives.

Intellect, morality, and character is just words, intentions, and ideas in our minds.  None of these things can allow me to perceive/experience the sheer beauty and joy my positive emotions have brought my life and neither can it allow me to experience what I've experienced through my miserable struggles.  Those hopeless and miserable states I've been through were such horrible states that no words, ideas, etc. can allow me to experience something so horrible.  Lastly, as for your question, people can act as though certain things are real and claim these things are real.  For example, people have acted and claimed Thor was real.  But that doesn't mean Thor was real.  So, just because people act as though value independent of positive emotions is real and claim it's real does not mean it's actually real.  You cannot trust a person's claim just because they act as though it's real and claim it's real.  That's the reason why I cannot trust people who claim that they perceived their lives as something beautiful and great despite their misery and inability to feel positive emotions.

You’re a nut job.  Go peddle your Deepak Chopra BS elsewhere.  You clearly aren’t interested in actual discussion.

Well, you can forget about that if you want. Besides, it was just a metaphor anyway.  Instead, let me just say this.  Here is an exercise I would want other people to perform.  This would actually be a great example for people who take psychedelic drugs.  If a person took a psychedelic drug and experienced the most profoundly beautiful bliss of his life, then he might report that it was a profoundly beautiful experience that was out of this world.  If that same person later struggled with the worst misery of his life and did something with his life such as being there for his family or contributing to the world despite that horrible misery, then he might report that this was also a profoundly beautiful experience in his life even though he was unable to feel positive emotions. 

I would want that person to actually think twice here.  In other words, I would want him to compare the two mental states.  If he pays close attention, then he should come to realize that mental state #2 (his intellectual/moral based values) is literally nothing compared to mental state #1 (the profoundly beautiful bliss he felt from being on that psychedelic drug).  Once he discovers this, then this should reveal that positive emotions are the real perception of value while our intellect, character, and morality alone is not the real perception of value. 

But if he still says to me that mental state #2 is the real perception of value in his life and that it's something far greater than mental state #1, then I have no way of knowing whether he is delusional and in denial or if he really is telling the truth.  I am not inside his mind and I can't experience what he is experiencing to find out.  As for me, I have payed attention to my mental states and, for me, my positive emotions are the real perception of beauty and joy while my intellect is not. 

One last thing here.  I don't think that both mental state #1 and mental state #2 are the real perception of value.  Only one mental state can be the real perception of value and I think it's mental state #1 (the positive emotions along with the negative emotions since they allow us to perceive bad value).  By the way.  Perceiving and experiencing are the same thing.  If you perceive the color red, then you are experiencing the color red and vice versa.  So, when you perceive value, you are experiencing value and vice versa.  Another example would be, if you experience hunger and thirst, then you are perceiving hunger and thirst and vice versa.

[LadyForCamus]

You’re a nut job.  Go peddle your Deepak Chopra BS elsewhere.  You clearly aren’t interested in actual discussion.

Well, you can forget about that if you want.  Besides, it was just a metaphor anyway.  Instead, let me just say this.  Here is an exercise I would want other people to perform.  This would actually be a great example for people who take psychedelic drugs.  If a person took a psychedelic drug and experienced the most profoundly beautiful bliss of his life, then he might report that it was a profoundly beautiful experience that was out of this world.  If that same person later struggled with the worst misery of his life and did something with his life such as being there for his family or contributing to the world despite that horrible misery, then he might report that this was also a profoundly beautiful experience in his life even though he was unable to feel positive emotions. 

I would want that person to actually think twice here.  In other words, I would want him to compare the two mental states.  If he pays close attention, then he should come to realize that mental state #2 (his intellectual/moral based values) is literally nothing compared to mental state #1 (the profoundly beautiful bliss he felt from being on that psychedelic drug).  Once he discovers this, then this should reveal that positive emotions are the real perception of value while our intellect, character, and morality alone is not the real perception of value. 

But if he still says to me that mental state #2 is the real perception of value in his life and that it's something far greater than mental state #1, then I have no way of knowing whether he is delusional and in denial or if he really is telling the truth.  I am not inside his mind and I can't experience what he is experiencing to find out.  As for me, I have payed attention to my mental states and, for me, my positive emotions are the real perception of beauty and joy while my intellect is not. 

One last thing here.  I don't think that both mental state #1 and mental state #2 are the real perception of value.  Only one mental state can be the real perception of value and I think it's mental state #1 (the positive emotions along with the negative emotions since they allow us to perceive bad value).  By the way.  Perceiving and experiencing are the same thing.  If you perceive the color red, then you are experiencing the color red and vice versa.  So, when you perceive value, you are experiencing value and vice versa.  Another example would be, if you experience hunger and thirst, then you are perceiving hunger and thirst and vice versa.

And I would like you to address the points and objections that I and others have made with regards to your OP, but you’re clearly not interested in doing that.  That’s how this works, you know.  You present your argument, your interlocutor responds to the specific premises they disagree with, and then you respond to those specific objections.  That’s called, a discussion.  You should try it some time.  Maybe you would find fewer condescending memes posted in your threads that way.

[The Industrial Atheist]

Holy crap I wanted to post here but couldn't make enough sense of this to say something. At first I thought it was my near complete lack of knowledge in philosophy, But I don't see how emotions are all that different from hunger and thirst. When you feel you feel. You can think about things differently to feel differently I suppose, but that is generally after the fact. I don't think I see things as higher and base emotions.

You can get positive emotions from seeing things in a negative lens. I've gotten a sense of joy from listening to dark music with very dark lyrics many times, Perhaps what TD is referring to is nothing like this.

[Neo-Scholastic]

OP...TLDR

There are only six basic emotions: happy, sad, angry, afraid, surprise, and disgust. Everything else is an matter of degree and interpretation.

[Mister Agenda]

Boru

I think I've explained my worldview/philosophy quite clearly and coherently.  I don't understand the issue here.  I gave supporting arguments for it and these arguments should be as clear as day.

That certainly sounded like you were channeling MK.

---

It's clear that it's meaningless dribble, well except to you.

I am not a skilled writer and the things I say might be unclear and incoherent.  But, personally, I think the things I've said are as clear as day.  I give supporting arguments for my worldview and I've tried to the best of my ability to explain why my positive emotions are the only things that make my life and composing perceived as being good, beautiful, and worth living for and why positive emotions are the only things that make life good in general. 

If everything I say is gibberish to you, then perhaps I only know how to write in such a way that it's clear to me, but I don't know how to write in such a way that it becomes clear for others.  In other words, I just don't know how to explain things in such a way that other people can understand.  I am trying to say something, but perhaps I don't know how to communicate it well despite the fact that English is my only language. 

However, other people such as my family and therapist have understood this packet quite well.  So, I don't understand why others shouldn't understand it.  If this packet is absolute gibberish to you, then perhaps read my other packet.  I think this other packet might be much more clear to you since it starts out with a very simple statement and then goes into a discussion with another person who has understood what I was saying.  That other packet/essay is here in this link.  It is a link to my Deviant Art journal:

http://fav.me/dc8semn

I think we've all written things we thought were great, and wondered how we could have thought so a year or two later. There wouldn't be any need for growth if we started at our destination.

You've wandered onto a site where critical thought, logic and rationality are valued highly by a lot of people; and you can expect a higher standard of critique from us than you would necessarily get from your fans, friends, and family.