My view and reasons for them. Atheist and Christians welcome here. (short)

[Anomalocaris]

I find this forum to be much of a dance (Re: christians being here [haven't run into any muslims yet])... I find whatever one's beliefs, one must learn the steps, and in that there is an inherent flaw: people are not thinking for themselves.

My opinion is this: You have been taught the steps, what more is your belief than that? I don't believe many people thought up the idea there is no God on their own since historically speaking, humans have believed a God exists. So I don't think they came to the conclusion themselves, but that this is something that is taught (or worse, they are simply believing in an antithesis). The point here is that people are not thinking for themselves. I will say I am not a hypocrite in this manner considering I came to the only reasonable conclusion I could make, which is that in the debate of whether God is real or not, I find the only reasonable explanation is that I don't know, which leads me to thinking that because there is a debate about God in the first place that someone somewhere must be on to something a long time ago, which leads me to believing everything is miraculous and everything is God.

If everything is god, why does it need the identifier god? Does simply everything not suffice?

[Quick]

Kids grow into adults who can change their minds. 

Didn't you -just- finishing telling us that you were neurologically wired for belief by early indoctrination? 

Sure. People can make small changes to their belief system as they age. I have found basically the bare minimum of what is necessary for me to believe.

I'm not. As you have implied, my beliefs are somewhat surprising to you.

Probably not in the way you're imagining.  These little mini convos I;m having with you..this isn;t the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, or sixth time I;ve had to explain to someone that not knowing shit doesn;t "ergo god".  In that sense, your beliefs are entirely common. I guess I;ve been here a few years..and it wouldn;t surprise me if I;d heard this particular bit hundreds of times.

I'm not claiming I believe anything that is completely uncommon.

---

I find this forum to be much of a dance (Re: christians being here [haven't run into any muslims yet])... I find whatever one's beliefs, one must learn the steps, and in that there is an inherent flaw: people are not thinking for themselves.

My opinion is this: You have been taught the steps, what more is your belief than that? I don't believe many people thought up the idea there is no God on their own since historically speaking, humans have believed a God exists. So I don't think they came to the conclusion themselves, but that this is something that is taught (or worse, they are simply believing in an antithesis). The point here is that people are not thinking for themselves. I will say I am not a hypocrite in this manner considering I came to the only reasonable conclusion I could make, which is that in the debate of whether God is real or not, I find the only reasonable explanation is that I don't know, which leads me to thinking that because there is a debate about God in the first place that someone somewhere must be on to something a long time ago, which leads me to believing everything is miraculous and everything is God.

If everything is god, why does it need the identifier god? Does simply everything not suffice?

I talk about this later, but believing in a God gives me purpose.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sure. People can make small changes to their belief system as they age. I have found basically the bare minimum of what is necessary for me to believe.

Every believer thinks that.  All of you have to filter and sort to suit.  Each of you think that you;ve excised all of the silly shit, and that what remains is essential to your beliefs.

I'm not claiming I believe anything that is completely uncommon.

-and yet you do...in assuring yourself that you aren;t the hypocrite you out yourself to be just a page or so later.

I talk about this later, but believing in a God gives me purpose.

So what, that doesn;t tell us whether or not your god belief is accurate..it; doesn;t even tell you that.  If you don;t need whatever gives you purpose to be accurate..then I doubt you need a god to give you purpose.  Any other old lie would do just as well. Ever heard of a magical being named Grover? He gives life lessons and even..I;ve heard it told, instills a sense of purpose. Maybe you need to go find some Grover?

[Quick]

Sure. People can make small changes to their belief system as they age. I have found basically the bare minimum of what is necessary for me to believe.

Every believer thinks that.  All of you have to filter and sort to suit.  Each of you think that you;ve excised all of the silly shit, and that what remains is essential to your beliefs.

I have never heard another person say what I said. Furthermore, I'd say the frame that believers are looking for a way to not believe isn't accurate. I'm not either.

I'm not claiming I believe anything that is completely uncommon.

-and yet you do...in assuring yourself that you aren;t the hypocrite you out yourself to be just a page or so later.

If I am a hypocrite, I'd like to know why you think I am.

I talk about this later, but believing in a God gives me purpose.

So what, that doesn;t tell us whether or not your god belief is accurate..it; doesn;t even tell you that.  If you don;t need whatever gives you purpose to be accurate..then I doubt you need a god to give you purpose.  Any other old lie would do just as well.  Ever heard of a magical being named Grover?  He gives life lessons and even..I;ve heard it told, instills a sense of purpose.  Maybe you need to go find some Grover?

You should probably drop the attitude or I am going to stop engaging with you.

You're saying that because I don't feel like defending my beliefs with empirical evidence that that means that I have no reason to believe them. That's why it's a belief and not a fact. finding purpose is an individual process and not something that needs defending.

[Anomalocaris]

Didn't you -just- finishing telling us that you were neurologically wired for belief by early indoctrination? 

Sure. People can make small changes to their belief system as they age. I have found basically the bare minimum of what is necessary for me to believe.

Probably not in the way you're imagining.  These little mini convos I;m having with you..this isn;t the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, or sixth time I;ve had to explain to someone that not knowing shit doesn;t "ergo god".  In that sense, your beliefs are entirely common.  I guess I;ve been here a few years..and it wouldn;t surprise me if I;d heard this particular bit hundreds of times.

I'm not claiming I believe anything that is completely uncommon.

---

If everything is god, why does it need the identifier god?  Does simply everything not suffice?

I talk about this later, but believing in a God gives me purpose.

So you can’t self actuate except through self deception?

[The Grand Nudger]

 

I have never heard another person say what I said. Furthermore, I'd say the frame that believers are looking for a way to not believe isn't accurate. I'm not either.

Yet another commonality I've already commented on.  Each of you that makes it here imagines yourself to be the only one.  

If I am a hypocrite, I'd like to know why you think I am.

Then it;s a good thing you have my comments on the matter. 

You should probably drop the attitude or I am going to stop engaging with you.

You're saying that because I don't feel like defending my beliefs with empirical evidence that that means that I have no reason to believe them. That's why it's a belief and not a fact. finding purpose is an individual process and not something that needs defending.

Oh heaven forfend you stop talking to me.  We all decide who and what we respond to..and you have a handy ignore button at your disposal, as well.

I don;t recall saying anything of the sort, nor am I asking you to defend the fact that you;ve found purpose, and I;ve already commented on your "reasons".

I was commenting on how...as you yourself stated earlier..it doesn;t really matter to you whether or not your beliefs are accurate.  If you don;t require accurate beliefs in order to derive an acceptable purpose, there's likely no specific belief you;d require to derive that purpose.  You;re the one that keeps interjecting your divine purpose as an answer to questions it;s wholly irrelevant to.  If you want people to stop commenting on it, stop saying it, lol.

Personally, I also enjoy a sense of purpose in my life...but I couldn;t derive purpose from foundations I knew to be innaccurate. I don;t have any of those practiced faith defense mechanisms.

[Quick]

 

I have never heard another person say what I said. Furthermore, I'd say the frame that believers are looking for a way to not believe isn't accurate. I'm not either.

Yet another commonality I've already commented on.  Each of you that makes it here imagines yourself to be the only one.

ok?

If I am a hypocrite, I'd like to know why you think I am.

Then it;s a good thing you have my comments on the matter. 

In otherwords, you're not going to explain it.

You should probably drop the attitude or I am going to stop engaging with you.

You're saying that because I don't feel like defending my beliefs with empirical evidence that that means that I have no reason to believe them. That's why it's a belief and not a fact. finding purpose is an individual process and not something that needs defending.

Oh heaven forfend you stop talking to me.  We all decide who and what we respond to..and you have a handy ignore button at your disposal, as well.

I don;t recall saying anything of the sort, nor am I asking you to defend the fact that you;ve found purpose, and I;ve already commented on your "reasons".

I was commenting on how...as you yourself stated earlier..it doesn;t really matter to you whether or not your beliefs are accurate.  If you don;t require accurate beliefs in order to derive an acceptable purpose, there's likely no specific belief you;d require to derive that purpose.  You;re the one that keeps interjecting your divine purpose as an answer to questions it;s wholly irrelevant to.  If you want people to stop commenting on it, stop saying it, lol.

We all believe things whether we know them to be true or not. I think my beliefs have merit because they give me happiness. You can shit on that if you want, but it makes you a bad person for doing so.

[The Grand Nudger]

We all believe things whether we know them to be true or not. I think my beliefs have merit because they give me happiness. You can shit on that if you want, but it makes you a bad person for doing so.

Heroin makes a junky happy, too.  : shrugs :

What happens, do you think..if one day you're parsing the beliefs you;ve described to us and you find that you just can;t believe them anymore? Does your purpose and happiness go poof? Do you struggle? Maybe that;s something you ought to ask the former believers around here?

-Something something something, like the foolish man..who built his house on sand.

[Astreja]

{Lack of belief} comes naturally when you listen to wild-ass claims about things like people coming back from the dead, magic trees, and Talking Snakes™ and then realize, much to your shock, that some people believe those things are real.

Again, I would say this is believing in an antithesis.

From my perspective it was never a decision to disbelieve.  I just found religious ideas unconvincing.

[Quick]

We all believe things whether we know them to be true or not. I think my beliefs have merit because they give me happiness. You can shit on that if you want, but it makes you a bad person for doing so.

Heroin makes a junky happy, too.  : shrugs :

What happens, do you think..if one day you're parsing the beliefs you;ve described to us and you find that you just can;t believe them anymore? Does your purpose and happiness go poof? Do you struggle? Maybe that;s something you ought to ask the former believers around here?

-Something something something, like the foolish man..who built his house on sand.

I think if I were to not believe in a God, for me, since I know myself, that my purpose would be lost. I am not in the minds of others so I cannot say the same for them.

I have no idea why you are quoting the bible to me.

---

Again, I would say this is believing in an antithesis.

From my perspective it was never a decision to disbelieve.  I just found religious ideas unconvincing.

As do I.