Are you an assertive atheist or a passive one?

[ElDinero]

These are good questions

1. Do you believe God is the imagination??
A-I think everyone and anything is God. So yes, God is imagination also, we are all connected to the Universe, no disproof otherwise. I can only describe Imagination is Godlike higher energy experiences.

"I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now?"
— John Lennon

2. If so, why does this have to require a supernatural being?
A-My imagination forms my idea of God, the idea that God is a spirit manifest into the ego self. Nobody can honestly explain what God is, I don’t think there is a super nature being, nor think there is a super human being. We are all God and we can explain all nature through time with reason as there is a reason for everything. Super natures God’s who created the concept of Hell are absence of reason. Eternal hell is against act and absent by nature to each individual creature and everywhere present.

Ok, so your definition of God is completely useless. Why is everything God? Why would you call everything God? Why use the word at all? We have words and names for things that exist, so why muddle the issue by claiming it is God? Do you worship everything? It's like the Smurfs using the word Smurf for half their words. So in your mind:

'My God forms my idea of God, the idea that God is a God into the God. Nobody can honestly explain what God is, I don’t think there is a God, nor think there is a God. We are all God and we can explain all God through God with God as there is a reason for God'

It's the pointless definition of God I've ever come across. The things you are describing are more commonly known as the natural world.

3. On what basis do you claim that atheists lack imagination?
A-Atheist think God is figment of human imagination yet Imagination is more important than knowledge. Atheist Science dominant it's scientific explanation for their atheistic origin of the universe. There are no other kind of fields that atheist dominate in which contribute little, lacking a broad sense of imagination and diversity. Imagination leads science, which would contradicts if science lead imagination. Science is only one branch in the tree of life?

Atheist tells me often my imagination doesn't prove anything, yet when you depend too much on your eyes, and then your imagination is out of focus. Atheist rigid thinking will not accept it unless it can be proven by scientific fact, so my claim often does not exist for them.

4. On what basis do you claim that the reason atheists do not run the world has anything to do with imagination?
A- Real Spirit leads ego yet Religious ancient spirit are leading us into this over ego world, Atheist criticized the various gods as products of human society and imagination. Can you imagine an Atheist as the US president in your lifetime? Can you imagine 3% atheist taking over and running the world from the 90% God believers. It you can’t imagine it, you can’t do it.

I am sad to say the dominant factor in society today is Religion. Much of science in which atheist dominant are given scorn and ignore which implies ignorance. Someday there will be a middle grounds, where religions will shrink and atheist will grow, allowing all of us to higher level of richly imagined desires, then shortly followed by our minds.

Science will standout much greater that day.

Some of your sentences are ghastly and hard work to read, but I think I have the gist of what you're saying. So let me get this straight:

1. Atheists dominate the field of science
2. Imagination leads science
3. Atheists lack imagination

I think I see a contradiction whacking you around the face with a giant bat. If imagination leads science, atheists would require an enormous amount of it in order to make their discoveries, no?

Now that aside, it's a pretty shit point for another reason. You've repeatedly referred to how religious people make up large amounts of the population compared to atheists. So it's not at all surprising to find non-believers poorly represented in any field. Despite this, there have been plenty of very prominent non-believers in almost any discipline you care to examine:

Writing: Mark Twain, Douglas Adams, Ian McEwan, Philip Pullman, Terry Pratchett, Isaac Asimov, Ernest Hemingway, George Orwell...

Entertainment: Woody Allen, Billy Connolly, George Carlin, Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, Seth MacFarlane, Matt Groening, Penn Jillette, Ricky Gervais...

Do I need to continue? The list goes on and includes technology (Bill Gates and Richard Branson), politics (Thomas Jefferson, James Madison) and as I said, almost any topic you wish to cover.

Another thing to raise is most atheists don't really necessarily want to be running the world. What secularists like me want is a society where this kind of thing not only does not matter, but is not really spoken about. I don't care at all what religion somebody is, as long as they don't expect preferential treatment for it and acknowledge the rights of everyone.

Finally, you speak of a middle ground, but we are already entering it. Atheists are one of the fastest growing groups in the world, particularly in the US. It's estimated that non-believers will make up I think 25-30% of the US population in ten years' time. In Europe, religion has already been somewhat marginalised in many countries. And it's only going to continue as we learn more about the world and how unnecessary God hypotheses are. Especially ones like yours, that don't tell us anything at all.

[Castle]

[quote='ElDinero' pid='175347' dateline='1315380904']
[quote='Castle' pid='175327' dateline='1315373869']These are good questions

From displaying in natural history museum and around the world .I find a great deal of Intellectual suppression on scientists I work with. They are afraid to speak out or they will be threatening by typically powerful interest group of corporation, government or profession. It’s not so much the scientist imagination in put than the product image. I had to break away from working for millionaire and billionaire in order restart new natural industries and products

Check your record books it’s only 3% atheist and 7% agonistic (neurtal grounds) in this world. There are 11% spiritual non religious in which most think there is a god. It all works out to about 90% who think there can be a god or there is a God. Most of these small list I get about great atheist in world history, on the average, about half of them are not self proclaim atheist. I did not add up yours, yet did see plenty of them.

Why are so many atheist so pessimistic and ungrateful, maybe because they do not lead their own lives well enough because its difficulties when so many relationship or people are suppressing them. I am with you on the preferential treatment in religious onesided dominates.

I think everyone is god embraces the simplest and most elegant idea that so nobody is any better or worst then the next guy, my atheist Mother agrees, everyone is god too.

With all the crazy cults out there, you think my view of God is the worst? That not even a decent insult coming from someone who says God either exists or God does not, you can’t help it, you’re an atheist, you dislike all forms of gods and spiritual interests are limited

---

From displaying in natural history museum and around the world .I find a great deal of Intellectual suppression on scientists I work with. They are afraid to speak out or they will be threatening by typically powerful interest group of corporation, government or profession. It’s not so much the scientist imagination in put than the product image. I had to break away from working for millionaire and billionaire in order restart new natural industries and products

Check your record books it’s only 3% atheist and 7% agonistic are on neurtal grounds in this world. There are 11% spiritual non religious in which most think there is a god. It all works out that 90% think there can be a god or there is a God. Most of these small list I get about great atheist in world history, on the average, about half of them are not self proclaim atheist. I did not add up yours, yet did see plenty of them.


Why are so many atheist so pessimistic and ungrateful, maybe because they do not lead their own lives well enough because its difficulties when so many relationship or people are suppressing them. I am with you on the preferential treatment in religious onesided dominates.

I think everyone is god embraces the simplest and most elegant idea that so nobody is any better or worst then the next guy, my atheist Mother agrees, everyone is god too.

With all the crazy cults out there, you think my view of God is the worst? That not even a decent insult coming from someone who says God either exists or God does not, you can’t help it, you’re an atheist, you dislike all forms of gods

[ElDinero]

You need to start checking your posts after replying, buddy.

From displaying in natural history museum and around the world .I find a great deal of Intellectual suppression on scientists I work with. They are afraid to speak out or they will be threatening by typically powerful interest group of corporation, government or profession. It’s not so much the scientist imagination in put than the product image. I had to break away from working for millionaire and billionaire in order restart new natural industries and products

Check your record books it’s only 3% atheist and 7% agonistic are on neurtal grounds in this world. There are 11% spiritual non religious in which most think there is a god. It all works out that 90% think there can be a god or there is a God. Most of these small list I get about great atheist in world history, on the average, about half of them are not self proclaim atheist. I did not add up yours, yet did see plenty of them.


Why are so many atheist so pessimistic and ungrateful, maybe because they do not lead their own lives well enough because its difficulties when so many relationship or people are suppressing them. I am with you on the preferential treatment in religious onesided dominates.

I think everyone is god embraces the simplest and most elegant idea that so nobody is any better or worst then the next guy, my atheist Mother agrees, everyone is god too.

With all the crazy cults out there, you think my view of God is the worst? That not even a decent insult coming from someone who says God either exists or God does not, you can’t help it, you’re an atheist, you dislike all forms of gods

If your mother agrees that everyone is God, she is not an atheist. It sounds kind of like Pantheism to me. And I don't 'dislike' Gods. I don't believe they exist.

Now I didn't actually say yours was the 'worst' view of God. I said it was the most pointless, because it answers no questions, doesn't change any information that we already had, it just calls everything God for what appears to be no reason, apart from maybe to ensure everyone is treated equally? Well of course we want equality, but why does that necessitate calling everything God? It makes zero sense. Also, I don't know why you're telling me to check my record books because I didn't challenge you on the percentages you quoted, other than to say that it is estimated that atheists and agnostics could make up as much as 30% of the population in the USA in ten years time. I didn't even mention the stats you quoted because they are irrelevant. Atheists are a minority which is why they are not hugely represented in various fields. That said, of the most educated people on Earth, much larger percentages are likely to be non-believers. I wonder why that could be?

Your first paragraph there I didn't understand at all. I'm guessing English is not your first language which is fine but if there's a point in that paragraph I haven't found it. The only other thing I have to take issue with is 'Why are so many atheists so pessimistic and ungrateful'. This one seems to have just come out of left field. Once again, as with the 'lack of imagination' claim, you haven't proven that it's even true. Before working out WHY something is the case, you have to actually show that it IS the case. It's like asking the question 'Why is it that so many Frenchmen wear odd socks and eat nothing but fish on every other Tuesday?'.

You're a fairly infuriating person to discuss things with. You repeatedly make unsupported assertions, contradict yourself within a paragraph, make pointless and unrelated statements that confuse the issue. You're all over the place.

[Greatest I am]

Are you an assertive atheist or a passive one?

Definition.

Passive atheist. One who does not actively seek out theists to try to convert them.

Assertive atheist. One who will actively seek out theist and try to convert them.

Please tell us why you do as you do.

Regards
DL

I am definitely a passive atheist. I do not actively seek to convert theists, and there are several reasons for this:
1) On a basic level, I just want to be left alone.
2) I do better in debates when I have time to prepare my responses, and, when I'm talking, I don't. I'm eloquent in my native tongue, and spoken language isn't it.
3) It invites people who, in turn, would want to convert me, and, as we all know, that's just annoying.
4) I probably won't convert anyone anyway.

That said, if the subject of religion does come up, I am willing to state that I do not believe, and will be willing to debate if driven to do so.

Sounds like the more assertive side has lost a good mind.
Not lost but you know what I mean.

Regards
DL

---

Padric and Eldinero maybe upset with me...as they quoted me of saying: Lead with your heart and followed by your mind.
When I quoted: Lead with your heart and shortly followed with your mind.

I agree about atheist keeping Religion on their toes because Religion that rule, lag and lack in science, skepticism and intellect causing much suffering from not following shortly with their minds. On the other hand, imagination dose lead science, not the other way round.

My studies of 2% bad to the bone dose concur with other artist business in my field. Where over the course of 36 years my business hired 1000s of employee yet did not take one client to court. Business and person life has been the same thing for me

Yes. The morals of one should be the morals of the other. It is all man.
Good attitude.

U S & Others should note their, Yuk, Corporate laws.

Regards
DL

[Castle]

[quote='ElDinero' pid='175385' dateline='1315398354']
You need to start checking your posts after replying, buddy.

[quote='Castle' pid='175368' dateline='1315386482']
If . And I don't 'dislike' Gods. I don't believe they exist.

You first stated that Atheists are one of the fastest growing groups in the world, particularly in the US. It's estimated that non-believers will make up I think 25-30% of the US population in ten years' time. Then you switch your thoughts to an estimated that atheists and agnostics could make up as much as 30% of the population in the USA in ten years time.

Agnostic are not non believers or a believers about God yet, they are in the middle. My mother is a self pro proclaim atheist, not Pantheism. No wonder, I'm given this mainly greatest atheist in human history lists, where on these atheist lists, half of them are not self proclaim atheist.

USA is about 85% Christian and 45% of them think the World is 10,000 years old, then you got 2.3% Population attributes of atheists in the US which makes that a far cry rising up to 30% in ten years and please leave agnostic to make up their own minds or you and many atheists are acting pushy like Christians.

You say atheist are the most educated people on Earth, as far as in IQ test goes, they are not above Politician and Nerds. I do find Atheist are highly intellectual and have higher IQs than Christians. EQ is another extreme story.

If I told you and your atheist group, that you repeatedly makes unsupported assertions, contradict yourself, make pointless and unrelated statements that confuse the issues. Then tell you and your atheist views don't tell us anything and you have the most pointless view had I have ever seen and haven't found any point to your thinking and your way of thinking is useless.

I am sure you would think I was lacking imagination, or acting very pessimistic and ungrateful and your core thinking would be reduce to thinking the worst too. You see, unless you have clean hands be careful how you point your fingers at someone’s fresh way of thinking.

I was kinder to Atheists saying your group will grow and Religion will shrink. Good thing I based it more on feelings, logic and reason and not our conversion. I think smuffs are more like atheist, and the evil is some big ugly guy, who is that guy? some capitalist Christian?

My only rule is simply to be honest, do not harm, and my result have been clean hand and created a few new industries of natural healthy services. At least you told me I am into nature and what can be more natural than that, I thank you for that.

[The Grand Nudger]

More quote tag goodness? I avoid the damned things like the plague.

[ElDinero]

Oh my God, CHECK YOUR POSTS. What is so hard about this?

I've checked it out, it's a load more babble about nothing that makes sense, so I'm certainly not going to dig it out to respond, just to get more babble.

[Castle]

Oh my God, CHECK YOUR POSTS. What is so hard about this?

I've checked it out, it's a load more babble about nothing that makes sense, so I'm certainly not going to dig it out to respond, just to get more babble.

You first stated that Atheists are one of the fastest growing groups in the world, particularly in the US. It's estimated that non-believers will make up I think 25-30% of the US population in ten years' time. Then you switch your thoughts to an estimated that atheists and agnostics could make up as much as 30% of the population in the USA also in ten years time. Agnostic are not non believers or believers of God yet, they are in the middle. No wonder the greatest atheist in human history lists, miss the part where half of these assumed atheist are not self proclaim atheist.

USA is about 85% Christian and 45% of them think the World is 10,000 years old, then take 2.3% Population attributes of atheists in which is a far cry to raising it up to 30% in ten years. Please allow agnostic to make up their own minds or your acting pushy like the Christians. You say atheist are the most educated people on Earth, as far as in IQ test goes, they are not above Politician and Nerds. I do find Atheist are highly intellectual and have higher IQs than Christians. EQ is another extreme story


My mother is a self pro proclaim atheist, not Pantheism. Wow, why would even bother to write to a person who you think only babbles nonsense, I would not waste my time. Many Atheist and Religion call each other Irrational. Why have you not called me Irrational,? You call me an idiot a nimrod and a bunch of other negative names. I have not called you OR anyone a whole puts down name, I only just get rid of very negative people.

If I told you and your atheist group, repeatedly makes unsupported assertions, contradict yourself, make pointless and unrelated statements that confuse the issues. Then tell you and your atheist views don't tell us anything and you have the most pointless view had I have ever seen and haven't found any point to your thinking and your way of thinking is useless.

I think you would think I was lacking imagination, or acting very pessimistic and ungrateful and your core thinking would be reduce to thinking the worst too. You see, unless you have clean hands be careful how you point your fingers at someone’s fresh way of thinking.

I do say Atheists group will grow and Religion will shrink. Good thing I based it more on feelings, logic and reason and not our talk. Maybe smurfs are more like atheist, and the big evil guy is a capitalist Christian?

My only rule is simply to be honest, not to harm. The results have been clean hands and created a few new industries of natural healthy services and carring no regrets. At least you told me I am into nature and that, I do thank you for.

[ElDinero]

Ok firstly I'm to make a correction, and you're right that I have confused my stats in the US and my 25% estimate is off the mark. Luckily, this doesn't really make too much difference to my overall point, however one thing I will point out is that agnostics ARE atheists, by definition. People who say they are agnostic in my experience avoid the word atheist because it's got some stigma attached to it. Atheism is the 'lack of belief'. So when asked the question 'Do you believe in God?', if the answer is anything other than 'yes', you are an atheist. If you're not really decided on it, you're an agnostic atheist, but until you can answer that question with 'yes', you are one. This is why the term agnostic is a useless one.

Once again you misrepresent me. I did not say atheists are the most educated people on Earth, I said among the most educated people, the percentage of atheists will be higher proportionally than the percentage in the general population. There is a difference. Most 'nerds' are fairly likely to be atheists as well, in my experience.

Now, as for this ridiculous middle bit. If you told me that I make unsupported assertions, contradict myself etc, you would have to show that this is the case. I wouldn't think you were 'ungrateful' (ungrateful for what? Me giving my opinion?), I would look into it and if I had contradicted myself, I would clarify the contradiction. You can't just turn something like this around on me and think that'll make me see the error of my ways. I can happily point to instances of where you have done the things I claimed. Can you do the same to me?

So once again I ask: Can you prove that atheists lack imagination? And can you prove that atheists are ungrateful and pessimistic? If not, stop trying to base an argument off these points.

Finally, it doesn't matter if your mother is a self-proclaimed atheist or not. If she thinks everything is God, then by definition she is not an atheist. Can I be a 'self-proclaimed vegetarian' and still eat steak every day? Can I be a 'self-proclaimed libertarian' and be in favour of slavery? I really don't think so. Words have definitions. Atheism is the lack of belief in a God, so you cannot be one and think that God exists. That is a fact. Tell your mother to check a dictionary.

[Castle]

Atheism is the lack of belief in a God, so you cannot be one and think that God exists. That is a fact. Tell your mother to check a dictionary.

The best opinion in the world is the opinion of oneself, since 50% of my life is about me and the other 50% is about everyone else, it stands to reason. If my Mother stands to self proclaim herself as an atheist, she most defines herself. There many ways to god so God and Gods is just a word and for me it’s a metaphor for a source of good intention and higher energy. Since the odd atheist can be spiritual sided and think there could be an afterlife like my Mother thinks, I understand and so be it. You say a self-proclaimed vegetarian' and still eat steak every day? Wow! What rigid thinking compare to guessing what whole Universe is about. Even Richard Dawkins claim he is deeply religious, but I still don’t understand what the hell that means.

Excuse me; I missed the word among, as in most educated people in the world statement. Maybe I slipped because Atheist still won’t tell me what their down side is.

The reason I said you dislike God is because the vast amount of atheist reject the notion of any kind of God”, as your consistently asked. Theists believe in the existence of a god or gods and opposite of an atheist. The most important thing one atheist learned from experimenting living life for 3 months like he was religious biblical person, he learned how to be more grateful if nothing else in life and to be less pessimistic.

I did not call you names to put you down. it’s not my style, you did put me down. I am just pointing out up side and down sides, I have them, you have them and we all have them. My statement that Atheist have a lame imagination (in general not all) is their down side, it is not saying Atheist lack imagination, God forbid.

There is another contradiction in the logic of atheism, because agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves in a god or religious doctrine. Agnostics assert that it’s impossible for human beings to know anything about how the universe was created and if divine beings exist, I just do not claim to know also for one who claims to know God, the more evasive and elusive God becomes meaning “unknown or unknowable.”.. I find Agnostic more likely to explore Spirituality than Atheist. An Agnostic is the one who is open to the possibility of God existing, but has not yet been convinced of it. In which Atheist imagination is being lame about those kinds of interests..

You said most 'nerds' are fairly likely to be atheists as well, in your experience. I don’t think so because the 3% atheist does not outnumber the 80% God believers nerds and the 10% could be God believers nerds. We know who Politician sides with, they need a high IQ to keep up with all the lawyers and liar going on, most often the best liar get elected.