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Ask the Christian
#91
RE: Ask the Christian
One of you guys mentined the unpardonable sin, saying of sorts "you mention forgiveness being abounding, yet what of the unpardonable sin". I guess feeling hey God is still a monster to hold the unforgiveness card up at you. Well for anyone who actually wants to be forgiven there is no such thing. Unpardonable sin is resisting the work of the Holy Spirit finally and completely, after many signs, and warnings to change your way. Becasue this issue is too complex to describe here I created a web page dedicated to it from scripture you can read it at your own leasure at http://www.futureandahope.net/index.php/...onable-sin hope it helps you get a better picture of who God is.
Hey I love God he is awsome.
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#92
RE: Ask the Christian
Bounce Ball

Yay...anywonder people leave xtianity in drovers...what a sucky deal.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#93
RE: Ask the Christian
(September 19, 2011 at 5:38 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: One of you guys mentined the unpardonable sin, saying of sorts "you mention forgiveness being abounding, yet what of the unpardonable sin". I guess feeling hey God is still a monster to hold the unforgiveness card up at you. Well for anyone who actually wants to be forgiven there is no such thing. Unpardonable sin is resisting the work of the Holy Spirit finally and completely, after many signs, and warnings to change your way. Becasue this issue is too complex to describe here I created a web page dedicated to it from scripture you can read it at your own leasure at http://www.futureandahope.net/index.php/...onable-sin hope it helps you get a better picture of who God is.

You forget a lot of us on this forum have read and tried to understand both the Old and New Testaments. Not to mention some of us used to be Christians.

Actually blasphemy of the holy spirit is the only unpardonable sin, basically that means crediting something done by the holy spirit to Satan. You can rape, murder and do all sorts of nasty acts, say to god you are sorry, while recognise Jesus as your lord and saviour and you get go into heaven. Wonder why people like Jeffery Dahmer became Christians Angel Even Christians I have personally spoken to are uncomfortable with people like Adolf Hitler going into heaven, so long as they put their trust in Jesus and say sorry for the sins they have committed.

Even if Yahweh existed I would refuse to worship such a being which sends people like Ghandi to hell, while sending people like Jeffery Dahmer into heaven. Many people think the Old Testament is evil, while they think the New Testament is better. In reality the New Testament is even worse than the Old Testament.
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#94
RE: Ask the Christian
Well I guess that just about wraps it up for this FnH guy. Big Grin

EPIC FAIL
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#95
RE: Ask the Christian
You will find very few of us on here who haven't read/ reread the bible qu'ran etc. I for one wanted to believe in a god who loved all. But I'm not weak enough to be bought by promises. I decided it would be best to say I don't know and use things like occams razor and Russells teapot. Now I can quite easily just get on with my real life and not waste a minute on some crappy fantasy.

Oh I also don't want there to be an abrahamic god. Nasty little toad capable of murder. NO THANKS.
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#96
RE: Ask the Christian
No point in asking THIS particular Xtian...he has no idea Undecided
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#97
RE: Ask the Christian
(September 18, 2011 at 10:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: God forgives you unconditionally: that's not love?
We had this discussion before - there's no such thing as unconditional love. Love always has conditions.

If you assert god is omnibenevolent or whatever then the first condition is, I must exist. If I don't exist, there is nothing to love. His affection needs to have a recipient.

The second condition of that passion is that I must reciprocate it. God has to experience the same love, liking or affection back. If I don't respond, there is no relationship and thus love cannot be sustained or flourish. Period.

You've also pointed out in several threads before that god's "ardour" is such an intense feeling of love, so all-encompassing, that no man can hope to match or repay it. Man is mortal and perishable and cannot continue loving this deity when he is weary of it or dead and gone. There is no affinity or likeness between creator and creation here. Therefore no one can provide a required conditional reciprocation of this raw emotion, and ultimately god's love fails before it starts. El Finito. By your assertion man is, by his own nature, unable or unworthy to love god as god loves man.


Quote:God forces you??
Do you not have a choice then?
In answer to your questions on choice - Do you believe I'll be sent to hell or suffer consequences if I don't? If I suffer loss, then he is either directly or indirectly (if he set reality/nature this way) forcing me against my will to love and obey him, which isn't love at all.


(September 19, 2011 at 5:17 am)lucent Wrote: The reason no one could answer this question for you is because most Christians don't understand much about the foreknowledge of God. It is sad no one even tried while you were in doubt.
Lucent, are you borrowing your entire responses and quoted extracts from the Covenant Protestant Reformed Church website? Look, please cite them so that I can ignore them if you are.


(September 19, 2011 at 5:38 am)FutureAndAHopedateline='1316425122' Wrote: Unpardonable sin is resisting the work of the Holy Spirit finally and completely, after many signs, and warnings to change your way.
So "unlimited" forgiveness was simply a case of Jesus lying or stretching the truth? You can't both. You can't have unlimited forgiveness for all sins and then unforgivable sins within those. They contradict one another.


Quote:Because this issue is too complex to describe here
Bullshit. Do that and I'll ignore you. You can kindly post your responses right here, just like what we're doing right now. Don't signpost us over to other websites that are just quoting straight from Biblical text in any case.
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#98
RE: Ask the Christian
Quote:Actually blasphemy of the holy spirit is the only unpardonable sin, basically that means crediting something done by the holy spirit to Satan


What you find from scripture is that it is said "If we confess our sin, God is fathful and just to forgive", the unpardonable sin is attributing that nature of forgiveness to the devil, there is no actual unpardobable sin as such, it is an act of the heart to see the mercy, love compassion of God, and just walk away saying devil, my idea is the truth you are just fiction.
Quote:You can't have unlimited forgiveness for all sins and then unforgivable sins within those

But my point was if you read the indeth study of the unpardonable sin below. There is not one unforgivable sin with in sins. So you don't have to go to my website I have cut and pasted my doc here for you:

<<<<begin quote>>>>

From time to time a person may think that they have committed a sin that is unpardonable, but is it actually scriptural. First I will the most common reason people feel they have committed it, and show that really there is no basis for this for a person who desires repentance.

So what are the scary verses? Hebrew 6 is the most feared.

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. - Heb 6:4-6

So that sounds quite scary to a genuine Christian who may have fallen into a sin, or gone back to an old sin. They may well think I have fallen away, I have blasphemed the Holy Spirit and it is as Hebrews says now “Impossible”, to be “bought back to repentance”. However the actual problem with this thinking comes from the idea that the verse is actually meaning that they are currently “crucifying the Son of God all over again”. This thinking would mean that in order for the person to have out sinned God, Jesus sacrifice is no longer there. But how far does it stretch? Only one sin, two sins, no sins, only sins before receiving the Holy Spirit? The latter is often peoples fear, i.e. “I have once been enlightened”, now they feel cut off. But we will actually start with Hebrews to show that the idea that Jesus sacrifice is limited to a few sins or one almighty sin is flawed. Note the following verse:

Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; Heb 9:27-28

So what did that just say, man dies once, so in like manner Jesus dies once. So from my rendering that is a life for a life, one life time of sins for one sacrifice. We don’t face judgment until after we die.

But is this scriptural how forgivable is sin, and once we receive the Holy Spirit are we a super being incapable of sinning? First we must go to a verse directed to those who HAD received the Holy Spirit and it says:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. - 1Jn 1:7-9

So firstly he said “if we claim to be with out sin”, or the devil tells you were 100% with out sin, and have now stuffed up, we should quote that verse, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” but what else does it say God is “is faithful and just and will forgive”. And furthermore what of the verse below:

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. - 1Jn 2:1-2

But if anyone does sin, we have one who speaks in our defence, so Jesus is actually defending you. Remember what Jesus said to his disciples when they asked how many times their brother could sin and still be forgiven.

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times”. As we know meaning infinitely. Mat 18:21-22

And what about the book of James:

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. - Jas 5:19-20

Also the bible says in Ezekiel

Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live! - Eze 18:31-32

What God, does not delight in the death of anyone, so he is not delighting in sinners perishing.

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. - 2Pe 3:9

So if we confess our sin, it is pardonable, why well the sacrifice of Jesus is available today. Why well God is “faithful and just”, “not willing that anyone perish”, taking “no pleasure in the death of anyone”. But remember it is a life for a life, once for all sin, in the same way it is appointed for man to die once and face the judgment. But hey don’t be scared if you are alive and reading this there is no problem. The only sin that will kill you is totally unrepentant sin, not willing to come back for forgiveness no matter what God says, and if you have that sort you are probably not even interested in reading this page. God is not unjust, he is faithful

<<<end quote>>>
Hey I love God he is awsome.
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#99
RE: Ask the Christian
[quote='FutureAndAHope' pid='180553' dateline='1316429108']
Quote:Actually blasphemy of the holy spirit is the only unpardonable sin, basically that means crediting something done by the holy spirit to Satan


What you find from scripture is that it is said "If we confess our sin, God is fathful and just to forgive", the unpardonable sin is attributing that nature of forgiveness to the devil,


It's very simply folks, blame Satan and ask for forgivenessArgueDevilAngel
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RE: Ask the Christian
(September 19, 2011 at 6:43 am)Welsh cake Wrote: We had this discussion before - there's no such thing as unconditional love. Love always has conditions.
Love has conditions that apply to love. God loves unconditionally, unless you are talking about something else... I seem to remember you wanting to refer to your own understanding of God > not compatable with the biblical God of Xtianity.

(September 19, 2011 at 6:43 am)Welsh cake Wrote: If you assert god is omnibenevolent or whatever then the first condition is, I must exist. If I don't exist, there is nothing to love. His affection needs to have a recipient.
So do you exist?

(September 19, 2011 at 6:43 am)Welsh cake Wrote: The second condition of that passion is that I must reciprocate it. God has to experience the same love, liking or affection back. If I don't respond, there is no relationship and thus love cannot be sustained or flourish. Period.
False.

You can love another and that love is not reciprocated. Sure. That doesn't cancel out the love given though.

Sure, you choose to reject it. Or you don't consider it.

Either way, you are not forced (notwithstanding your own imaginary concepts)

(September 19, 2011 at 6:43 am)Welsh cake Wrote: You've also pointed out in several threads before that god's "ardour" is such an intense feeling of love, so all-encompassing, that no man can hope to match or repay it. Man is mortal and perishable and cannot continue loving this deity when he is weary of it or dead and gone. There is no affinity or likeness between creator and creation here. Therefore no one can provide a required conditional reciprocation of this raw emotion, and ultimately god's love fails before it starts. El Finito. By your assertion man is, by his own nature, unable or unworthy to love god as god loves man.
There is no requirement for man to love God as God. They love him as humans, with their failings... hence the necessity for salvation. If men were gods then your point would stick. Unfortunately (besides Adrian) we are not gods.

(September 19, 2011 at 6:43 am)Welsh cake Wrote:
Quote:God forces you??
Do you not have a choice then?
In answer to your questions on choice - Do you believe I'll be sent to hell or suffer consequences if I don't? If I suffer loss, then he is either directly or indirectly (if he set reality/nature this way) forcing me against my will to love and obey him, which isn't love at all.
I believe that you are subject to justice, yes. You are not forced because you choose to rebel.

You're hiding from the sun and complaining that you can't get a sun tan. It's the sun's fault because it's forcing you against your will to expose yourself to it if you want a sun tan.
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