Cisgender vs Non-Binary

[Acrobat]

First off, you don't need to be in the changing room to help your wife pick out an outfit.
She can walk out to where you are and show you. This has never been an issue.

No, it's inconvenient, she has to walk out leave her stuff unattended, put her shoes on, worry about the door not closing on her, one of those automatic locks, etc..

It's more convenient for us if I can go directly into the changing room, since I have that privilege as a non-binary male, why not use it, the same way a cisgender female would do? Why should i have to go along with policies designed for cisgender men?

[EgoDeath]

Cisgender vs Non-Binary

These terms are relatively new to me, and I never had to think under which label might I fall into, based on their definitions, until recently.

I have male and female friends, and there’s a variety of things I share with both genders. I am not as masculine as my male friends, who like sports, hate shopping, don’t care about aesthetics, more stoic, hate cooking, are not as nurturing, while sharing aspects considered traditionally female, like taking a very active nurturing role in parenting, enjoying shopping for myself and for my wife, picking out handbags, cooking, being open about my feelings. In fact for the most part I feel more comfortable with my female friends than my male friends, probably has to do with being raised primarily by my mom, and with having two sisters.

This is one area that I will admit confuses me about the LGBT community. I literally never think about whether or not I'm masculine or feminine, outside of conversations like this... and maybe that's the point, that since I'm a straight white male, I don't have to think about those things; I suppose I have that convenience. People in the LGBT community seem to be constantly thinking about this facet of their lives... and maybe society forces them to, I don't know. Personally, I don't see masculinity in the way that you describe it: Loving sports, hating shopping, not caring about looks, being stoic and hating cooking.

To me, masculinity, as well as femininity, is a bit hard to define. I believe I'm masculine simply because of the way I carry myself; it's in my being and in my attitude toward the world and myself, not in the activities I do. I love to read and write. Are those things feminine? I love guns and I enjoy fighting (for sport, mostly Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Kickboxing)... are those things masculine? I enjoy cooking and grilling... don't care for baking. Is that masculine or feminine? I hate shopping, but I also loathe sports of all kinds. I don't even watch the UFC, even though I love BJJ and Kickboxing. Is that masculine or feminine? To me, I think you can get bogged down in murky waters trying to define which activities are masculine and feminine; in my mind, it's much more about how one carries themselves and how they view the world. I'm not really sure how to define it though, I just sort of know it when I feel it. For example, I tend to attract and be attracted to feminine girly girls. I love when a girl smells pretty and has her hair done and maybe some makeup on. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside and I love being around feminine energy. I'm the type of guy that would rather hang out in a room full of girls than sit around with a bunch of guys drinking beer. Is that masculine or feminine?

One thing is for sure, I certainly don't define myself as cisgender or binary. Or even masculine really. I think most people who meet me would say I'm a masculine guy. But I've never woke up and been like yea, I'm a cisgender, masculine male! HOORAH! It's just not something that I think about.

While when I was younger I had a more androgynous look, where I idolized prince. As I grew older I preferred the more masculine, rugged appearance, dad fashion. I am also both aggressive and assertive, and straightforward more like my male friends than girl friends.

Based solely on appearance I look like a traditional cisgender male, but on the inside I feel I can identify with some traditional components of each gender, while not relating to others.

Some people here poked fun at me for referring to myself as non-binary, by claiming that I sound more like a hipster than a non-binary, or sarcastically claiming that by my description  they’d also classify as non-binary.

If I strongly identified as non-binary, these comments would come off as very hateful, and bigoted. But since I’m not too well versed on the distinctions here, I take it as there could possibly be some truth to their implications, that I’m more of a confused cisgender male, as opposed to non-binary. I would like to hear from those who think I’m misusing the label, as to why they think that? I’m trying to understand what am I not getting about the non-binary cisgender distinction?

I did watch some videos of non-binary people, and it’s clear that we don’t look alike, but this doesn’t seem to be the dividing line from what I read.

I read a few article as well, and still came out thinking it’s an appropriate label for me.

Since I feel many people here perhaps know more about gender identities than I do, I’m hoping this is a good opportunity to explore the question more, and not misuse these labels, if that’s what I’ve been doing.

It seems like you're quite fixated on this topic and fixated on the idea of defining yourself in some way. This is another thing I've never understood about the LBGT community; I don't feel some deep-seated need to define myself in order to have an identity. Once again, maybe this is the convenience of being a straight white male... I don't know. But it's strange to me when people feel the need to belong to a group like that. Hell, outside of being on this forum, I rarely think of myself as an atheist even. I'm just me.

Maybe I do like to consider myself a writer, so maybe I do group myself in that way. I don't know. I'll be the first person to say I don't really understand a whole lot about the cisgender/trans stuff. Whatever the case may be, this is a pretty liberal crowd here (I'm a liberal myself). I really doubt anyone is giving you shit for being "non-binary," whatever that means. You're a person and you deserve the same rights and respect as anyone else. Don't let people get to you. There's a difference between someone trying to insult you and someone who just maybe doesn't understand what you're going through.

[brewer]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Example: I want to help my wife in the lady's fitting room to decide what she should buy. The store prohibits cisgender men from being in the ladies room. If I'm asked to leave, by a sales associate, I will inform the person that I'm non-binary, to continue to remain in the ladies fitting room unchallenged.

Or if somehow I end up in prison, I might try and use my non-binary status to request I be transferred to a female prison, were I feel more comfortable and safer, than in a male prison.

Yeah, good luck with that.

[Rahn127]

First off, you don't need to be in the changing room to help your wife pick out an outfit.
She can walk out to where you are and show you. This has never been an issue.

No, it's inconvenient, she has to walk out leave her stuff unattended, put her shoes on, worry about the door not closing on her, one of those automatic locks, etc..

It's more convenient for us if I can go directly into the changing room, since I have that privilege as a non-binary male, why not use it, the same way a cisgender female would do? Why should i have to go along with policies designed for cisgender men?

Maybe we've grown up with different sizes when it comes to changing rooms, but the ones I grew up with are about as big as a bathroom stall. If the door has an automatic lock on it then her items are safe.

She could leave her purse & shoes with you if those are worries she has about the security of her things.

I could really care less what a man or a woman identifies AS. I care about what they are or what they are perceived to be.

If someone perceives you as being male, then you will be regarded as a male and treated accordingly.

Like it or not, there are male and female safe spaces in which people of one gender only expect to see people of their same gender in that space.

Locker rooms where people are changing clothes are spaces generally divided by gender.

Until people get over their own hangups about being naked in front of strangers, (which will be a long fucking time), we'll continue to have these issues about spaces dedicated to certain genders.

Just because a man cries while watching a romantic movie doesn't mean he's a woman. It means he has emotions and empathy and that makes him human.

Consider the changing room as a top secret area that you don't have clearance for. How bout that ?

[arewethereyet]

First off, you don't need to be in the changing room to help your wife pick out an outfit.
She can walk out to where you are and show you. This has never been an issue.

No, it's inconvenient, she has to walk out leave her stuff unattended, put her shoes on, worry about the door not closing on her, one of those automatic locks, etc..

It's more convenient for us if I can go directly into the changing room, since I have that privilege as a non-binary male, why not use it, the same way a cisgender female would do? Why should i have to go along with policies designed for cisgender men?

Ya know, some people go shopping for and try on clothes all by themselves and are able to handle it without assistance.  

You really seem to be looking for something to be offended about.

Just curious, how many more threads will you be starting on the subject of cis and non-binary?  There have been times today when the opening page looks like this is a gender identity forum.  

[Acrobat]

No, it's inconvenient, she has to walk out leave her stuff unattended, put her shoes on, worry about the door not closing on her, one of those automatic locks, etc..

It's more convenient for us if I can go directly into the changing room, since I have that privilege as a non-binary male, why not use it, the same way a cisgender female would do? Why should i have to go along with policies designed for cisgender men?

Ya know, some people go shopping for and try on clothes all by themselves and are able to handle it without assistance.  

You really seem to be looking for something to be offended about.

Just curious, how many more threads will you be starting on the subject of cis and non-binary?  There have been times today when the opening page looks like this is a gender identity forum.  

And some people like getting the second opinion of their husbands, sibling, shopping mate, etc when buying expensive clothes.

I like the topic of male/female gender identity, because there’s a lack of definitions as to what that means, so it’s interesting explore questions, such as what it does it mean to identify as male, or identify as female. I’m sure I’ll return to it again at some point in the future as well, but far now these are the only threads I had plannned.

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I could really care less what a man or a woman identifies AS. I care about what they are or what they are perceived to be.

If someone perceives you as being male, then you will be regarded as a male and treated accordingly.

No what you perceive my gender identify as doesn’t trump what I perceive my gender identity. My perception dictates which room I’m allowed to be in. In stores that have a more lgbtq inclusive policy, the fact that I perceive myself as non-binary, is sufficient reason for why I should be allowed in the female fitting room, not the sales associates or other customers perceptions of me as cisgender. My feelings dictate who I am not your perceptions.

Locker rooms where people are changing clothes are spaces generally divided by gender.

And this is progressively evolving to be by gender identity, rather than biological sex.

Just because a man cries while watching a romantic movie doesn't mean he's a woman. It means he has emotions and empathy and that makes him human.

Than what does it require for a biological man, to at least partly identify as the opposite gender, what if crying during romantic movies, an interest in cooking, nurturing, etc.. make him feel female? If this isn’t a sufficient enough basis to classify one as in part female, than what is? At what line can such a person define himself as non-binary?

Are you the arbiter of that? Or the persons whose forming their identity?

[Amarok]

Maybe we've grown up with different sizes when it comes to changing rooms, but the ones I grew up with are about as big as a bathroom stall. If the door has an automatic lock on it then her items are safe.

Which is why all the paranoia about trans people being their is silly 

Like it or not, there are male and female safe spaces in which people of one gender only expect to see people of their same gender in that space.

An it's idiotic and irrational 

Locker rooms where people are changing clothes are spaces generally divided by gender.

Which is foolish 

Until people get over their own hangups about being naked in front of strangers, (which will be a long fucking time), we'll continue to have these issues about spaces dedicated to certain genders.

Or not 

Just because a man cries while watching a romantic movie doesn't mean he's a woman. It means he has emotions and empathy and that makes him human.

While true that has nothing to do with anything 

Consider the changing room as a top secret area that you don't have clearance for. How bout that ?

How about no

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Ya know, some people go shopping for and try on clothes all by themselves and are able to handle it without assistance.  

And some don't 

You really seem to be looking for something to be offended about.

Not what i'm getting 

Just curious, how many more threads will you be starting on the subject of cis and non-binary?  There have been times today when the opening page looks like this is a gender identity forum.  

There are subjects far more worn out then this

[tackattack]

"safe spaces" aren't separated by gender, they're separated by sex. I think that's how this whole bathroom fiasco started. I personally would rather use a female bathroom than a male bathroom because men are dirty filthy pigs and women's toilets are generally much cleaner, comparatively.

The policy wasn't designed to keep a gender or sexual preference separate. It was because generally, vajayjay and diock should be separated when they're being exposed was the puritanical norm. Which was/is evidenced by an entire genre of public bathroom porn going on. If the objective were to separate our genders or sexual preference, there would be far too many "types" of "safe places" so a gender neutral place was called for.

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This is one area that I will admit confuses me about the LGBT community. I literally never think about whether or not I'm masculine or feminine, outside of conversations like this... and maybe that's the point, that since I'm a straight white male, I don't have to think about those things; I suppose I have that convenience.

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Careful, someone might call you out on your straight privilege

[Mr.Obvious]

Dunno @tackattack, i prefer the male toilets at work. Then again, where i work, women outnumber us like 4 to 1 and we have same amount of lavatories.

[EgoDeath]

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This is one area that I will admit confuses me about the LGBT community. I literally never think about whether or not I'm masculine or feminine, outside of conversations like this... and maybe that's the point, that since I'm a straight white male, I don't have to think about those things; I suppose I have that convenience.

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specific excerpt

Careful, someone might call you out on your straight privilege

I'm well aware that there or challenges I do not have to face in life, and I'm cool with that. It sucks that some people have to constantly think about their sexuality or race or whatever... but honestly, it's just not my problem. As adults, we all have to manage our own emotions and reactions to things in life - even if people are being nasty to us because of something we cannot change about ourselves. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be sensitive to one another's differences, because it requires very little effort on our parts to do so, so why not? If all I have to do to respect someone's gender identity and help them feel validated, like any human that's straight, gay or otherwise, wants to feel validated, is say "she" instead of "he," or vice-versa, then cool, I'm happy to do that.

But if someone's going to tell me I've had an easy life, and that my life's been easy because I'm a straight white male, I would kindly ask that person to remove their head from their ass, because my life has not been easy.