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Yep! Another query for the xtians.
October 23, 2011 at 10:59 am
Is your god the only thing that can cause an "uncaused cause"?
If so, then how does 'free will' work?
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RE: Yep! Another query for the xtians.
October 24, 2011 at 5:53 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2011 at 5:56 am by fr0d0.)
I don't believe in free will, rather free agency: We are free agents to act as our wills dictate. We are biological machines who's actions result from our instincts and influences.
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RE: Yep! Another query for the xtians.
October 24, 2011 at 5:58 am
(October 24, 2011 at 5:53 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I don't believe in free will, rather free agency: We are free agents to act as our wills dictate. We are biological machines who's actions result from our instincts and influences.
You slippery bugger 
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RE: Yep! Another query for the xtians.
October 24, 2011 at 7:06 am
It isn't the uncaused causer thing which makes God unable to give free will, it is omniscience. The universe must be deterministic in order to require an "unmoved mover"; therefore, God, knowing everything, must be able to see the inevitable conclusion of any set of starting conditions. Since he must have known this when choosing his starting conditions, he effectively decided what path humanity would take when he created the world, which I would argue does not constitute free will.
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RE: Yep! Another query for the xtians.
October 24, 2011 at 7:35 am
Then please demonstrate how you are not free to choose what your will would lead you to do than edk.
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RE: Yep! Another query for the xtians.
October 24, 2011 at 7:39 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2011 at 7:39 am by frankiej.)
What I got from it is that God probably isn't omniscient... Not that we "are not free to choose what your will would lead you to do"
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RE: Yep! Another query for the xtians.
October 24, 2011 at 7:40 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2011 at 7:41 am by edk.)
(October 24, 2011 at 7:35 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Then please demonstrate how you are not free to choose what your will would lead you to do than edk.
I believe that I am. However, if God created us, he could see the future and therefore our choices, which by choosing different starting conditions he could have altered. Therefore his choice of starting conditions predetermined our choices. It's not free will your choices were chosen for you by God.
(October 24, 2011 at 7:39 am)frankiej Wrote: What I got from it is that God probably isn't omniscient... Not that we "are not free to choose what your will would lead you to do"
Well, you can't have both. Since Christians assert that God is omniscient, I do not see how free will can logically exist.
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RE: Yep! Another query for the xtians.
October 24, 2011 at 9:25 am
Well I totally agree with you edk, as I define free will as a biological mechanism.
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RE: Yep! Another query for the xtians.
October 24, 2011 at 10:36 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2011 at 10:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
He defines it as such because it came to light that the traditional concept of free will was untenable once god was invoked. God (and all of his creations) just got that much smaller. If "free will" is another one of those biological mechanisms, lets just add that to the long list of shit we don't need your myth for eh?
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RE: Yep! Another query for the xtians.
October 25, 2011 at 1:26 am
If there is no freewill then why have I been able to change my mind about God and who He is. Would it not be better, if a man has no freewill, that he always makes a choice and never change his mind.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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