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RE: Atheist Dogma
April 21, 2020 at 11:54 am
(This post was last modified: April 21, 2020 at 12:00 pm by Prof.Lunaphiles.)
(April 21, 2020 at 11:44 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: A person can have a concept of theism and deism before anyone ever presents either claim to them.
The first people to believe in gods must have. No, they had to think about it. They had to go through a series of experiences that they could not explain other than a supernatural entity causing the events. They could not possibly magically recognize that there is something that is doing it all, after just one encounter with an unexplainable experience. They cannot observe a burning bush and from that conclude that a god made the land and the ocean and trees and on and on and on . . .
(April 21, 2020 at 11:44 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: (April 21, 2020 at 11:31 am)Prof.Lunaphiles Wrote: Furthermore, theism is an ontology suggesting that a supernatural dimension creates reality. Ontologies cannot be devised/designated in opposition to a defined ontology. Ontologies are essentially a list of all that exists. Some theistic beliefs include this claim, not all. Theism is not an ontology suggesting any such thing. It is the belief in personal intervening gods.
I do not care how they erroneously/inadequately construct their doctrine, if they believe that there are gods doing things, then that god(s) is the original entity of all that it controls, which is an ontology.
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RE: Atheist Dogma
April 21, 2020 at 11:55 am
(This post was last modified: April 21, 2020 at 11:58 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Yes, a person can think about things that no one else has ever had to tell them. That's why a person can be an atheist before any christian anywhere says so much as the first word to them, and it's also how the first believers ever came to be.
The issue that you are beating your head against is not any inadequacy of their doctrine, but of your own comprehension. Theism is not what you think it is. That just -might- have something to do with why you think these terms need better definitions.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheist Dogma
April 21, 2020 at 12:03 pm
(April 21, 2020 at 11:02 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Were arguing about the word have, now... I thought the argument was the meaning of the word 'is'.
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RE: Atheist Dogma
April 21, 2020 at 12:06 pm
(April 21, 2020 at 12:03 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: (April 21, 2020 at 11:02 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Were arguing about the word have, now... I thought the argument was the meaning of the word 'is'.
Well there are known unknowns…..
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Atheist Dogma
April 21, 2020 at 12:09 pm
(This post was last modified: April 21, 2020 at 12:15 pm by Prof.Lunaphiles.)
(April 21, 2020 at 11:55 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Yes, a person can think about things that no one else has ever had to tell them. That's why a person can be an atheist before any christian anywhere says so much as the first word to them, and it's also how the first believers ever came to be.
The issue that you are beating your head against is not any inadequacy of their doctrine, but of your own comprehension. Theism is not what you think it is. That just -might- have something to do with why you think these terms need better definitions.
I think you have a misconception of what theism is. Using the term "believe" to define something is informal, if not erroneous. The description of ,"believe," tends to be in dispute as to what exactly it is. And I think it is an error for atheists/humanists to accept belief to be this inexplicable phenomenon that does not require reasoning, whether it be faulty reasoning, or valid reasoning.
(April 21, 2020 at 12:06 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: (April 21, 2020 at 12:03 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I thought the argument was the meaning of the word 'is'.
Well there are known unknowns…..
We have a ways to go to catch up with the last discussion about this topic that went on for three month and 1024 posts.
https://atheistforums.org/thread-57667-p...pid1892072
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RE: Atheist Dogma
April 21, 2020 at 12:32 pm
(This post was last modified: April 21, 2020 at 12:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
My conception of theism is the belief in a personal and intervening god. I see no value in arguing over the definition of belief. Nor do I think that belief is an inexplicable phenomena, whether it requires reasoning or not. Whether that reasoning™ is faulty or valid. These are other bones you have to pick with other things.
Theists are people who believe in personal intervening gods. Whether they reasoned their way into that or not, and no matter how competent their rational faculties are (if they did), that is what they believe.
That description of a theist, of theism, is accurate. Just as the description of "atheist" is accurate for anyone who doesn't believe in gods for any reason or no reason at all.
Is there something wrong with the definition of theism?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheist Dogma
April 21, 2020 at 12:36 pm
If theism had never been invented, everyone would be a nominal/trivial atheist, we just wouldn't have a word for it.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Atheist Dogma
April 21, 2020 at 1:00 pm
LOL, an amusing tick of history, if theism had never been invented, we'd probably call ourselves adeists.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheist Dogma
April 21, 2020 at 1:12 pm
(April 21, 2020 at 12:32 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Is there something wrong with the definition of theism?
Updated definitions are including the term "doctrine," for both, "theism," and "atheism," because the advanced editors have recognized the error of the past definitions using only "believe."
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RE: Atheist Dogma
April 21, 2020 at 1:15 pm
What problem? What problem does the definition "people who believe in a personal and intervening god" pose for an accurate description of those people who believe in a personal and intervening god?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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