Philosophical Failures of Christian Apologetics, Part 11: The Holy Spirit

[brewer]

christians would be happier if there were more NDE's.

(no, no, not the autoerotic kind, bunch of perverts)

I thought "autoerotic" was sex with cars?

Those people own Hummers.

[Fake Messiah]

Let's spice this topic with some other William Lane Craig's pearls.

Ok, let's see what WLC says on abortion:

if your unmarried daughter should—God forbid—
become pregnant, do not encourage her to seek an abortion. Two wrongs will not make a right. One mistake is bad enough; do not compound it further by having her commit homicide against her own daughter or son.

Because, *DUH*, what can it else be but a mistake when an unmarried woman gets pregnant. She as a woman is obviously not a well balanced person but your daughter who made a mistake. Who knows maybe she wouldn't be so eager for abortion if everyone stopped looking at her and her pregnancy as a problem, mistake and other stigmas.

become politically involved to change abortion laws where possible. Familiarize yourself with the issues, for example, by receiving the National Right to Life newspaper. Vote for elected officials based on their pro-life stance. Speak out against the promotion of abortion in your children’s schools or wherever the issue is raised.

So yeah, he wants to outlaw abortion.


And of course when it comes to gay people, WLC's solution is....

if you are a homosexual or feel that inclination, keep yourself pure. You should practice abstinence from all sexual activity. I know this is difficult [oh, he knows it's difficult to stay away from gay sex], but really what God is asking you to do is pretty much the same thing that He requires of all single people. That means keeping not only your body pure, but especially your mind. Just as heterosexual men should avoid pornography and fantasizing, you, too, need to keep your thought-life clean. Resist the temptation to rationalize sin by saying, “God made me this way.” God has made it very clear that He does not want you to indulge your desires, but to honor Him by keeping your mind and body pure.

Finally, seek professional Christian counseling. With time and effort, you can come to enjoy normal, heterosexual relations. There is hope.

So there you go, WLC prescribes gay conversion therapy to gay people, something that is more and more banned by law because it is not a therapy but torture of gay people.

I mean is WLC the best that Christianity can give, considering that he is this superstar theologian in Christian and other religious circles? So the best is just some charlatan?

[The Grand Nudger]

Magic book recommends abortion in case of marital suspicion.

[GrandizerII]

I mean is WLC the best that Christianity can give, considering that he is this superstar theologian in Christian and other religious circles? So the best is just some charlatan?

Certainly one of the best from the Christian perspective. He rhetorically (and sometimes even logically) outdoes atheists who have no business doing debates since they don't bother to prep for them properly or don't have the requisite skills needed for these.

Call him dishonest all you want, but he ain't stupid. Anyone who thinks he's stupid is probably being stupid in saying so.

[Fake Messiah]

Call him dishonest all you want, but he ain't stupid. Anyone who thinks he's stupid is probably being stupid in saying so.

Anyone who is telling gay people to go on gay conversion therapy is stupid, so WLC is stupid.

[GrandizerII]

Call him dishonest all you want, but he ain't stupid. Anyone who thinks he's stupid is probably being stupid in saying so.

Anyone who is telling gay people to go on gay conversion therapy is stupid, so WLC is stupid.

The thing is he's not trying to appeal to someone like you. Whether intentionally or subconsciously, he's appealing to the group of people that keep him going (evangelical Christians specifically). I mean, fine, if you want to call WLC stupid for not agreeing with your moral stance on this matter, be my guest. But intellectually, it's a big mistake for atheists to underestimate him. Even if his arguments aren't reasonable, he does have a PhD in philosophy and is very well-read in the relevant literature and has written books and journal articles on several topics in philosophy. He's not a poor thinker, he thinks very deeply about topics to do with metaphysics and such, and sometimes he is mischaracterized by atheists. He may have said that it's not logic that brought him to the faith but he doesn't believe that his arguments aren't nevertheless logical.

Hitchens, Harris, and even Krauss (eventually) have heaped praises on this guy, FTR. Hitchens, in an out-of-character manner, was quite commendable of him.

[Fake Messiah]

I mean, fine, if you want to call WLC stupid for not agreeing with your moral stance on this matter, be my guest.

My moral stance? It's because I am more morally evolved than him so I don't see homosexuals as immoral.
So I see it in a way that I should be teaching him and not the other way around, especially when he defends slaughter of Canaanites and their children because they were debauched and sinful and therefore deserved to be slaughtered.

Even if his arguments aren't reasonable, he does have a PhD in philosophy

Then he should know better. Try talking to some philosophy professors and see if they even know of him.

He's not a poor thinker, he thinks very deeply about topics to do with metaphysics and such

That's the point of this topic that he isn't any different "thinker" than Ken Ham and other Christian clowns.

He may have said that it's not logic that brought him to the faith but he doesn't believe that his arguments aren't nevertheless logical.

But that's the thing, his arguments are not logical. Kalam cosmological argument has been debunked as illogical and all Craig does is that he insists he is right and ignores any arguments that he is wrong.

[GrandizerII]

I mean, fine, if you want to call WLC stupid for not agreeing with your moral stance on this matter, be my guest.

My moral stance? It's because I am more morally evolved than him so I don't see homosexuals as immoral.
So I see it in a way that I should be teaching him and not the other way around, especially  when he defends slaughter of Canaanites and their children because they were debauched and sinful and therefore deserved to be slaughtered.

You can't teach him anything, lol. It's part of his theology and it would shock his fanbase if he said contrary to what they believe. He doesn't care what you and I think on the matter.

Even if his arguments aren't reasonable, he does have a PhD in philosophy

Then he should know better. Try talking to some philosophy professors and see if they even know of him.

I haven't talked to any of them, but there are lot of them who know of him. Why does it bother you so much that he happens to be well-known and well-respected?

He's not a poor thinker, he thinks very deeply about topics to do with metaphysics and such

That's the point of this topic that he isn't any different "thinker" than Ken Ham and other Christian clowns.

You're letting your bias cloud your judgement of him if you think he should be put in the same category as Ken Ham ...

He may have said that it's not logic that brought him to the faith but he doesn't believe that his arguments aren't nevertheless logical.

But that's the thing, his arguments are not logical. Kalam cosmological argument has been debunked as illogical and all Craig does is that he insists he is right and ignores any arguments that he is wrong.

The point is that he thinks they're logical. And to be fair, it's not that simple to declare his arguments to be illogical. Sometimes atheists turn out to be misunderstanding the premises of this or that argument (like with the modal ontological argument) or hastily dismiss others. The general issue with his arguments is the lack of evidence and/or science to back some of the premises up, but as far as validity goes they tend to be logical. This is why atheists often fail when debating Christian apologists like WLC.

[Fake Messiah]

Why does it bother you so much that he happens to be well-known and well-respected?

That's just it, he's not well-respected.

You're letting your bias cloud your judgement of him if you think he should be put in the same category as Ken Ham ...

It's not about my "bias" but that he said that evidence would not change his mind - like did you see the video in first post? Not to mention that he has the same stance on LGBTQ people, abortion and other stuff just like Ham.

Sometimes atheists turn out to be misunderstanding the premises of this or that argument

Actually it's the opposite. Craig is the one who makes the caricature of atheist claims, like on suffering. Atheists claim that good God would not let people suffer immensely and tragically, but instead Craig claims that atheists demand God to give people cushy life, lots of money, with nice stuff and that's why God is not good in their eyes, and many others things that Craig doesn't understand or just turns into a caricature.

Really, look at this video, Craig is a joke





And that's just one of many videos on YouTube debunking his dumb claims.