[Quranic Reflection]: moon absorbed by the sun in the Quran: far future.

[The Grand Nudger]

Your magic book was created in the very same way.  If we're taking it seriously, ofc.  If we're talking about your absurd beliefs about magic book as a precognitive travel brochure, disregard.

Thing is..I wasn't talking about christinity or magic book, there, I was noticing that you, like the progressive western left with christians, see modern muslims as somehow meaningfully un-muslim.

Prophet Mohammed is the central point. If he's dead, then he didn't verify what was written after his death.
The Quran was written while Mohammed was alive. That is the book of God that I should follow; that is the only thing verified by Mohammed.

My point about Christianity that the faith itself is corrupted beyond repair. It is too too long and full of loopholes that Rome kept in the Council so they control the religion. So of course anything spawning from it is messed up; including the American left.

Big Mo died long before there was a magic book.  He never verified a single word of what you worship.  In fact, magic book was written precisely because the people believed to have memorized the great mans thought droppings were dying in the ensuing battles for control. Had to traipse all over here and there collecting scraps written on fronds or sewn into clothes or little bits recited by memory. We're told that the work of collecting and then assessing all of the material was exhaustive. I'm entirely certain that it was.

You take all of this seriously, but not seriously enough to have learned the most basic points of it's history.

[WinterHold]

Before there was a magic book, it very literally was hadith, and it was the production and collection of those hadith and their method of production and collection that led to the thing you now worship as an idol.

True. That's what little Winter can't wrap his head around. ALL of Islam is oral transmission. If you reject the hadiths, you basically reject Islam.

Liar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of..._tradition

After Muhammad would receive revelations, he would later recite it to his companions, who also memorized it or wrote it down. Before the Quran was commonly available in written form, speaking it from memory prevailed as the mode of teaching it to others. The practice of memorizing the whole Quran is still practised among Muslims. Millions of people have memorized the entire Quran in Arabic. This fact, taken in the context of 7th-century Arabia, was not an extraordinary feat. People of that time had a penchant for recited poetry and had developed their skills in memorization to a remarkable degree. Events and competitions that featured the recitation of elaborate poetry were of great interest.[10]

[The Grand Nudger]

lol, "Origin according to Islamic tradition"

Clown.

[WinterHold]

Prophet Mohammed is the central point. If he's dead, then he didn't verify what was written after his death.
The Quran was written while Mohammed was alive. That is the book of God that I should follow; that is the only thing verified by Mohammed.

My point about Christianity that the faith itself is corrupted beyond repair. It is too too long and full of loopholes that Rome kept in the Council so they control the religion. So of course anything spawning from it is messed up; including the American left.

Big Mo died long before there was a magic book.  He never verified a single word of what you worship.  In fact, magic book was written precisely because the people believed to have memorized the great mans thought droppings were dying in the ensuing battles for control.  Had to traipse all over here and there collecting scraps written on fronds or sewn into clothes or little bits recited by memory.  We're told that the work of collecting and then assessing all of the material was exhaustive.  I'm entirely certain that it was.  

You take all of this seriously, but not seriously enough to have learned the most basic points of it's history.

Please see the link again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of..._tradition

The Quran was verified and companions of Mohammed would write every verse once it is revealed to the prophet.

---

Sunni and Shia scholars generally believe that the Quran was written down in its entirety at the time of Muhammad's death.[citation needed] Muhammad's cousin Ibn Abbas describes the way in which the final version of the Quran was fixed: "the prophet recited the book before Gabriel every year in the month of Ramadan, and in the month in which he died he recited it before him twice."[18] It is believed that the term "reciting the Quran twice" means compiling all the Quranic revelations into a complete and final version. It is understood[citation needed] that toward the end of Muhammad's life a special act of revelation occurred in which a final and complete version of the Quran was created. The term 'recite', which is used here, is referring to the custom where a Quranic scholar recites the entire Quran from beginning to end a number of times before a senior scholar. According to this tradition the act of recital is being performed by Muhammad, with the angel Gabriel playing the role of superior authority.[19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of..._tradition

[The Grand Nudger]

Keep fucking that chicken, one day, it'll stop biting you.

[R00tKiT]

Please see the link again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of..._tradition

The Quran was verified and companions of Mohammed would write every verse once it is revealed to the prophet.

No. Bro. Collecting all verses didn't start until Muhammad died.
From your own link : "who also memorized it OR wrote it down"
Do you understand the logical meaning of OR ? Namely, that it's not AND ?

[WinterHold]

Please see the link again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of..._tradition

The Quran was verified and companions of Mohammed would write every verse once it is revealed to the prophet.

No. Bro. Collecting all verses didn't start until Muhammad died.
From your own link : "who also memorized it OR wrote it down"
Do you understand the logical meaning of OR ? Namely, that it's not AND ?

No, you go back and read my post.

---

https://atheistforums.org/thread-62090-p...pid2014086

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

No. Bro. Collecting all verses didn't start until Muhammad died.
From your own link : "who also memorized it OR wrote it down"
Do you understand the logical meaning of OR ? Namely, that it's not AND ?

No, you go back and read my post.

---

https://atheistforums.org/thread-62090-p...pid2014086

I thought you were leaving.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, I think we can pin this one..as it;s obviously not going to be the case that your silly beliefs will disappaer in the face of facts. Let's just imagine, in a hypothetical world, with a hypothetical magic book, that was hypothetically made out of hadith and made in the same way that hadith are produced and verified.......would you (hypothetical you), in that hypothetical world, feel that you had misunderstood something about your religion, and your objections to your own religion?

[R00tKiT]

No. Bro. Collecting all verses didn't start until Muhammad died.
From your own link : "who also memorized it OR wrote it down"
Do you understand the logical meaning of OR ? Namely, that it's not AND ?

No, you go back and read my post.

---

https://atheistforums.org/thread-62090-p...pid2014086

You provided nothing in the post. Another important anecdote, more than 70 huffaz - Muslims who memorized the Qur'an - were martyred at the Battle of Yamama, Abu Bakr feared the Qur'an may be lost and ordered its collection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yamama

THEREFORE, they clearly were relying on these Huffaz. This battle is the irrefutable proof that there was no written Qur'an before Uthman took over the mission of collecting it.