James Webb

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

I have no issues with the tech advancement aspect. Just have a hard time imagining what infrared from the beginning of time will provide other than pure knowledge. 

Can you tell me what Kepler, Hubble, ........ gave us other than knowledge for knowledge's sake (outside of the tech that may have been developed anyway on other missions)? That's my drift, shortsighted as it may be, there should be a cost-benefit ratio aspect.

Okay. Some things off the top of my head.

1) It's BIG.

Find some picture comparisons of it and Hubble. In telescopy (New technical term I just made up ) 'Bigger' is pretty much always 'Better'. Hence we don't just see 'Farther' we get better details on things as well.

2) Just building it and successfully deploying it shows that, with this style of mirror arrangement, we can go BIGGER STILL!

The JamesWebb is the 747 size compared to Hubble's DC10. The 'Air Bus' version is yet to come. Remember, people didn't see the point of something like the 747 either, untill it changed the economics of air travel.

3) Because it mainly sees in the 'Infrared' a lot of places hidden by 'Interstellar soot' (Dust etc) will be effectively transparent to the J-Webb.

"Gee... what the fek is dimming 'Tabby's Star'? No idea because of all the crud. Good thing we can take a peak 'Through' that dust and maybe see what all the dimming is about thanks to the J-Webb."

The corollary to this is that the J-Webb can see 'Through' our Galaxy's disc full of stars and their collected amount of ejected crap and get even better images of things further away in our own neighborhood.

Like, possibly seeing the flickering hints of other fireflies out there in our Galaxy?

Just some things for shared rumination.

Cheers.

[vulcanlogician]

I have no issues with the tech advancement aspect. Just have a hard time imagining what infrared from the beginning of time will provide other than pure knowledge. 

Yeah, pure knowledge, pfft.

[Anomalocaris]

Go research what the space program has given back to humanity just in terms of health benefits. I have no problem with the space program, though I will admit that I have a vested interest, having spent 27 years of my life working on space systems.

I have no issues with the tech advancement aspect. Just have a hard time imagining what infrared from the beginning of time will provide other than pure knowledge. 

Can you tell me what Kepler, Hubble, ........ gave us other than knowledge for knowledge's sake (outside of the tech that may have been developed anyway on other missions)? That's my drift, shortsighted as it may be, there should be a cost-benefit ratio aspect.

I would rate the benefit of their cost not belong applied to anything else as outweighing their

[polymath257]

Yes, pure knowledge. You know, one of those things that makes us human to search for.

I would *much* rather spend $10 billion on a space telescope than on bombing poor people from another country back to the stone age or helping out some giant corporation that does nothing for the general good. Remember we just spent more than 100 times as much on a covid bailout that didn't seem to help the average person at all.

$10 billion amounts to about $30 a person in the US, it is hardly a huge outlay.

[vulcanlogician]

@brewer

It might seem like myself and others are slamming you, Brew. But we're not. I appreciate the discussion that your comment sparked.

Is "pure knowledge" (that has no utility as far as human happiness/wellbeing goes) valuable at all? I think it IS valuable. But I understand folks that think otherwise.

[Anomalocaris]

pure knowledge forms the pool from which practical knowledge can be drawn when needed.

the sort of practical knowledge that is drawn from the pool of pure knowledge is usually not obtainable at all if one only narrowly search for knowledge based on immediate need.

so yes,  if you value practical knowledge when it would do the most good, then value the expansion of the pool of pure knowledge that made much of the practical obtainable at all when it was needed.

it is not a choice between looking back to the beginning of the universe or else kill people unnecessarily. 


it is choice between encouraging the acquisition of practical knowledge by enlarging the pool of pure knowleging, or letting the acquisition of practical knowledge become ever more circumscribed abs slowly ground to a halt by the drawing down of the pool of untapped pure knowledge.

[brewer]

@brewer

It might seem like myself and others are slamming you, Brew. But we're not. I appreciate the discussion that your comment sparked.

Is "pure knowledge" (that has no utility as far as human happiness/wellbeing goes) valuable at all? I think it IS valuable. But I understand folks that think otherwise.

I'm not against gaining knowledge, just taking perspective on application and cost.

'pure' may not have been the best word choice.

[Fireball]

Here's a list of some tech that the JSWT mission provided advances for-

JWST Pays forward

[Anomalocaris]

@brewer

It might seem like myself and others are slamming you, Brew. But we're not. I appreciate the discussion that your comment sparked.

Is "pure knowledge" (that has no utility as far as human happiness/wellbeing goes) valuable at all? I think it IS valuable. But I understand folks that think otherwise.

I'm not against gaining knowledge, just taking perspective on application and cost.

'pure' may not have been the best word choice.

it may always seem that many hungry children can be fed if only collectively humanity is contended to be a little more ignorant.    that logical conclusion is we should devoting all make everyone’s bellies full and the cost of not equipping ourselves to deal with the certainty that of all we have is our current knowledge, the day when we may all starve will arrive more surely and sooner.

[brewer]

I'm not against gaining knowledge, just taking perspective on application and cost.

'pure' may not have been the best word choice.

it may always seem that many hungry children can be fed if only collectively humanity is contended to be a little more ignorant.    that logical conclusion is we should devoting all make everyone’s bellies full and the cost of not equipping ourselves to deal with the certainty that of all we have is our current knowledge, the day when we may all starve will arrive more surely and sooner.

Hungry children, hunger in general, never crossed my mind.

---

Here's a list of some tech that the JSWT mission provided advances for-

JWST Pays forward

Maybe, but some of those feel like over reach for rationalization/justification.