[split] Ethics - parental responsibility re: children

[Ahriman]

I might actually be mentally stunted, that would explain why I can't seem to make any meaningful progress with my life, and why I claim to believe in such retarded ideas. I am profoundly unfulfilled, and I wish I had a time machine.

[Belacqua]

I might actually be mentally stunted, that would explain why I can't seem to make any meaningful progress with my life, and why I claim to believe in such retarded ideas. I am profoundly unfulfilled, and I wish I had a time machine.

Have you been affected much by Covid lockdowns?

I know several people who have lost enthusiasm while the world seems shut down. At least one is struggling with alcohol. Meaningful progress is scarce for a lot of people right now.

I hope everyone can bounce back someday.

[Rev. Rye]

Name it.

Ok, sure, here's the Wiki link on antina...

Nah, on second thought, you're a very special person with a very unique view that no one has ever thought of before, please ignore.

Seriously, there are dozens of philosophers who have had the same thought and have actually managed to create some good arguments in favour of  it. David Benatar and Arthur Schopenhauer are probably the best examples, possibly the Buddha. Ahri might be onto something, but doesn't seem terribly capable of expressing it in a way that doesn't sound like, well, a mentally ill shitposter. And, yes, I have mental illnesses, but at least I can apply some degree of intellectual rigor to the question.

Maybe I could qualify the premise, say it's not automatically a bad thing, but that it does become one when one decides to bring a child into the world recklessly, without knowing how to care for it and/or knowing that you're going to doom it to a bad life with little chance of rising above it all and/or if you're not going to be prepared to prioritise its well-being over yours. Or I could point out that the experiences of the last decade or two are making bringing new life into the world an option less morally sound (say, that there's a vanishingly small window of time before our chances to do anything about global warming run out and that it's become blindingly obvious that we're going to miss the mark. Or, Hell, the fact that we've been dealing with a deadly virus for two years and people are bitterly divided about whether we should do anything about it.)

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I might actually be mentally stunted, that would explain why I can't seem to make any meaningful progress with my life, and why I claim to believe in such retarded ideas. I am profoundly unfulfilled, and I wish I had a time machine.

That’s all possible. What else is possible is that you’re just another jumped up troll.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Maybe I could qualify the premise, say it's not automatically a bad thing, but that it does become one when one decides to bring a child into the world recklessly, without knowing how to care for it and/or knowing that you're going to doom it to a bad life with little chance of rising above it all and/or if you're not going to be prepared to prioritise its well-being over yours.

I think you'd find broad agreement on that one - varying levels of competence, but broad agreement.

Or I could point out that the experiences of the last decade or two are making bringing new life into the world an option less morally sound (say, that there's a vanishingly small window of time before our chances to do anything about global warming run out and that it's become blindingly obvious that we're going to miss the mark. Or, Hell, the fact that we've been dealing with a deadly virus for two years and people are bitterly divided about whether we should do anything about it.)

Another one of the functions of a parent.  Shielding their children from the consequences of poor decisions others have made - including themselves.  Really, though - there's no need or compulsion to hit those marks if we start to feel morally compelled to commit ritual biological suicide as a species.

I appreciate the better quality of argumentation we might be able to find for anti natalist thinking - but I don't think it holds water in the end. Fatalism and misanthropy. If you broke something, you fix it, not insist that it be left on the field and no one else gets to play with it anymore.

[Ahriman]

For as much as my memories define who I am, they also remind me of what a failure I am. I'm beginning to wonder how I ever had friends in the first place.

[arewethereyet]

For as much as my memories define who I am, they also remind me of what a failure I am. I'm beginning to wonder how I ever had friends in the first place.

Have you made an effort to keep these relationships going?  Or do you expect your friends to put in all the effort?

It's difficult in these days of social distancing, but there are many other ways to keep in touch and even to re-establish contact.

[Ahriman]

For as much as my memories define who I am, they also remind me of what a failure I am. I'm beginning to wonder how I ever had friends in the first place.

Have you made an effort to keep these relationships going?  Or do you expect your friends to put in all the effort?

It's difficult in these days of social distancing, but there are many other ways to keep in touch and even to re-establish contact.

All of my old friends went off to college and have real lives.

[Rev. Rye]

Maybe I could qualify the premise, say it's not automatically a bad thing, but that it does become one when one decides to bring a child into the world recklessly, without knowing how to care for it and/or knowing that you're going to doom it to a bad life with little chance of rising above it all and/or if you're not going to be prepared to prioritise its well-being over yours.

I think you'd find broad agreement on that one - varying levels of competence, but broad agreement.

And if this video by a prominent pro-life org is any indication, I suspect there might be a lot more disagreement than you might think.





And notice how, for all these attempts at satire, mocking these men who don't want to be fathers, they fail to see that if they're really that irresponsible, they probably shouldn't be forced to take care a kid. The description for the video says that "abortion primarily benefits selfish, childish men and fuels the abuse of women and the deaths of children," but their solution is no solution. Either they're utter Pollyannas who think that the only thing keeping these men from being good parents is Roe v. Wade still being on the books or they don't grant that premise that you say should bring broad agreement.

[Ahriman]

Anti-natalism is, without a doubt, the logically correct perspective, and arguably the morally correct perspective as well.