[Serious] That Trans Thread

[Rev. Rye]

More a chuckle.

[Neo-Scholastic]

...gender identity [according to Peterson] is a blanket term for multiple personality traits, such as conscientiousness and agreeableness, that generally corelate with sex differences.

... neurological evidence that brains of transgender females are more similar to those of biological women than they are to biological men; similar results hold for transgender males. Brains can be gendered even if bodies cannot, at least fully.

It is true that neurologically, trans female brains are similar to most biological females. That in no way undermines Peterson's point. Pesonality traits most likely do correlate with neurobiology. So what? That does not mean there are male and female brain types. Or that brains have gender. What Peterson is saying is that gender identity is a poor framework for interpreting personality traits and that idea holds true even if the personality traits are entirely neurological.

[Rev. Rye]

Neo-Scholastic yesterday:

Petersons’s perspective... Put simply, gender identity is a blanket term for multiple personality traits, such as conscientiousness and agreeableness, that generally corelate with sex differences.

Neo-Scholastic today:

What Peterson is saying is that gender identity is a poor framework for interpreting personality traits and that idea holds true even if the personality traits are entirely neurological.

You mind doing a little clarification, dude? Is gender identity a poor framework for interpreting personality traits or is gender identity just a blanket term for a collection of personality traits we tend to correlate with sex differences?

[Neo-Scholastic]

You mind doing a little clarification, dude? Is gender identity a poor framework for interpreting personality traits or is gender identity just a blanket term for a collection of personality traits we tend to correlate with sex differences?

In general, gender identity is a framework for populating sets, i.e. categorization by gender. In particular, a gender identy is a blanket term, one that is unnecessarily arbitrary compared to categorization by personality traits.

[Jehanne]

Or that brains have gender.

Brains can be gendered.

[Rev. Rye]

You mind doing a little clarification, dude? Is gender identity a poor framework for interpreting personality traits or is gender identity just a blanket term for a collection of personality traits we tend to correlate with sex differences?

In general, gender identity is a framework for populating sets, i.e. categorization by gender. In particular, a gender identy is a blanket term, one that is unnecessarily arbitrary compared to categorization by personality traits.

So, one's understanding of their own selves is unnecessarily arbitrary?

[Jehanne]

In general, gender identity is a framework for populating sets, i.e. categorization by gender. In particular, a gender identy is a blanket term, one that is unnecessarily arbitrary compared to categorization by personality traits.

So, one's understanding of their own selves is unnecessarily arbitrary?

I can't even begin to fathom why anyone other than my wife and family would care what's going on between my ears?? I am not being investigated for any crimes, am going to bathe here very soon for work, am current on all my bills (but, am actively trying to reduce my credit card debt) and pay all my taxes (unlike some other "patriots").

A few days ago my wife bought me two long skirts from Old Navy, one light blue and the other black, both of which are pretty. I had a short internal debate as to whether it would be shoes or sandals; as it is 68F, I decided on the latter.

[Neo-Scholastic]

So, one's understanding of their own selves is unnecessarily arbitrary?

I can't even begin to fathom why anyone other than my wife and family would care what's going on between my ears?

Well, I am interested in your opinions since the topic appears to be salient for you. Other than that, I certainly do not care much except to the extent you want to share.

It does seem however that within the public discussion there is an attempt to paint skeptics of gender ideology as busybodies. As I see it the opposite has been the case. The skeptics have made a point of being unconcerned with subjective mental experiences except to the extent that those feelings are used to support statements such such as, "Trans women are women" that are then used to justify percieved intrusions of men into womens-only private spaces, unfair participation of boys in girls-only sport, and the concerns about irreversible medical procedures being performed on minors. Maybe the feelings of biological women for privacy, girls' feelings of being cheated out of scholarships, and/parent's feelings that activists are interferring with private parent-child relationships do not matter to activists, but if the activists dismmisses their feelings then why should those folks respect the feeling of the activists?

[Jehanne]

@Neo-Scholastic Just to be clear, no issues with transgender males participating in boys & males sports?

As for the bathroom controversy, if a transgender female or male can "pass", what's the issue? How would anyone know that they are there??

As for irreversible surgery on minors, the medical community does not take such casually. Such is an extreme procedure, and is only performed as at last resort, perhaps to save the life of the minor. After all, which is better, a living minor whose undergone sexual reassignment surgery or a dead one?

[Rev. Rye]

Just for the record, the youngest I’ve ever heard of anyone getting sexual reassignment surgery was 16, and even then, that’s under extraordinary circumstances. Hell, even getting it at 18 isn’t all that common due to waiting lists.

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Fun fact: I actually found this out because of this song:



Kim Petras, guest artist on the track, was actually internationally famous even before she embarked on a pop career for being "The world's youngest transsexual." Dated wording aside, she actually wound up breaking the record for youngest person to ever get gender confirmation surgery (at 16). For the record, she had been identifying as a girl since she was two. Following up on this revelation, I looked to see if her record was ever shattered. It has only been tied. Outside of some trans men who got top surgery at 15, I haven't found anyone 15 and under who got genital surgery.

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Also, there are some trans men who get top surgery at 15, which is doesn’t seem to be common either.

If we’re talking about anyone who hasn’t gone to high school yet, it’s just puberty blockers (something that’s used on children without any fuss for things like precocious Puberty) and letting them dress and present themselves as they want.