Palestine

[Leonardo17]

Which is more viable: a one-state Israel solution, or a two-state Israel + Palestine solution?

Accept Israel doesn't want two states it wants Israeli and a puppet state called Palestine a state that has no real power and does whatever Israeli says.This is not to say Hamas desires anything better. We have two shitty regimes who perpetuate a ridiculous conflict based on irrational nonsense.

… Therefore: We need secular, democratically elected and democracy loving leaders on both sides. That’s step one.
2) Local authoritarian regimes should not have that much influence in the region including in Lebanon for instance.
3) Whatever agreement they reach, it has to be backed / supported by the International community.   
 
That’s my solution

[Leonardo17]

Another Nazi remark uttered in the midst of international silence:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67051292


Is there any doubt that Israel is a Nazi, terrorist state?

Also note the selective editing of the quote. The actual quote is "we are fighting human animals and are acting accordingly." Al-Aqsa propaganda brigade.

ETA: one of many sources: https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfe...ge-on-gaza

He is talking about terror groups and I agree with him

[Leonardo17]

That's honestly not a great shock as Hamas's track record of successful coordinated attacks is virtually non-existent so the idea they could pull something like this off is hard to believe. That said the more conspiracy-minded part of me can think up darker motives.

Everybody hates Israel.
And that hate never left Muslims TBH, and the more its government does more crimes the more the hate grows.

Their crimes united Lebanese and Palestinians, Sunnies and Shiites, Yemenies and Iraqies.
Neo-Nazi deeds and fascist HItler tactics are so out of context, time, age and humanity.

Nobody needs to start this; it's rotten fruits falling from the tree.

And nobody to blame but Israel that wasted so much time killing, instead of building bridges with the natives.
It's like the arrogant kid in school who got drunk with the bullies and thought he is superman.

I don’t hate Israel. But many people (including Jews) are very critical of the policies of Israel. Personally, if I was a Jew, I would not want to live in Israel. But it’s OK for me if they want to live there. We have to find a solution for them to live there, while respecting the right of Palestinians to live in the same region. When you look at it like this, this doesn’t look so difficult does it?

[Leonardo17]

LOL. 
Then we have 9/11 and all your suicide bombings and beheadings. 
Speaking of rotten fruits from the tree.
You have more than your share.

Didn't the CIA proxy -Al-Qaeda- fall with no return ?
Their popularity is 0, and even the most extreme Muslim questions their deeds.


Real Muslims are builders of empires; people like Turkey's Erdogan.

Last thing though..9/11 has inside job written on its forehead. That event was the justification for Bush's crusade to rob the M.E out of its oil; remember ?

We really, really, really don’t like him. The only reason why he is winning is his control of the state + media. He is the Puppet of Arab states. But if you see MBS as an Emperor, then yes, his like the puppet of the emperor of the “Muslim States” if you want. Without forgetting that people are poor and unemployed while people who are close to “The Palace” as we call it, are hanging up in sport cars sleeping with women without headscarf in exchange for money.
 
So their empire is an empire of piousness. The only problem: Truly spiritual people do not understand their ways of piousness.

[Leonardo17]

there was no "Israel" in the past, 

The entire field of archeology says you are wrong. Now whether that gives them any right to the land is another question.

We really, really, really don’t like him. The only reason why he is winning is his control of the state + media. He is the Puppet of Arab states. But if you see MBS as an Emperor, then yes, his like the puppet of the emperor of the “Muslim States” if you want. Without forgetting that people are poor and unemployed while people who are close to “The Palace” as we call it, are hanging up in sport cars sleeping with women without headscarf in exchange for money.
 
So their empire is an empire of piousness. The only problem: Truly spiritual people do not understand their ways of piousness.

[Leonardo17]

The area of the West Bank north of Jerusalem was Samaria, the northern kingdom of the Israelite federation of tribes.  Wikipedia sez, "The earliest mention is from the Kurkh stela of c.853 BCE, when Shalmaneser III mentions "Ahab the Israelite", plus the denominative for "land", and his ten thousand troops."

Then there was "the Kingdom of Samaria" , there wasn't the racist fascist British colony named "Israel" by the British.
That fascist British colony is plagiarizing the ancient Israeli kingdom and trying so desperately to resurrect a carbon copy.

Again: Limited knowledge.
 
But during WWII something horrible happened to the Jew of Europe and there was a decision to give these people a state to make up for the horrors that kept happening to the Jews since many centuries.
 
But this is not our issues. Why don’t you want them to live there? There is a saying in my language, “You won’t be able to take anything to you grave”. I mean why is it that they cannot live there? Just let them.

[Leonardo17]

I believe it would spark a war between Israel and most of the middle east as it would be seen as a step to far.It would shatter whatever goodwill Israeli has tried to broker with it's neighbours. It would embolden Iran and put the west in very awkward position.

Do you think the various ME countries would really engage in a a war with Israel, and most likely the US?
Or would, if done now and done quickly, be pretty much a fait accompli?

Perhaps they are thinking that goodwill can always be regained over time, but so long as Gaza exists (and Hamas exists with its goals) then Israel can never be safe from such attacks, and if they ever got WMD then that would be catastrophic.  Maybe they have calculated that this is the best road to peace on at least one of its borders.

Arabs do not want that state in a place they see as “theirs”.
 
Maybe that’s our problem here. This is not the crusades.
 
In Arab countries there is one wealthy elite controlling everything, consuming the goods of industrialized nations and the rest of the people are poor, very poor.
 
So maybe they need to give them something. Like the Evil Israelis murdering their brothers in faith. The Romans did exactly the same thing while mentioning the threat of the Huns. The Russians and Chinese are doing this with the “West” or “The Nazis”.
 
And yes it works: Here people have zillions of problems. Right now they’re just plugged in to social media asking themselves why the Big Satan is sending a Carrier to the region.
 
No more Armita Gerawand. No more inflation. Just the will of God (come on Atheists, support me on that)

[Leonardo17]

No, they are not as there is no British empire anymore 


Expect it's not a fact 

Then, the colonies of the extinct British Empire need cancellation also, or to wage the same massacres that took place in the British & Spanish colonies against the natives.

The Jews, Muslims and Christians can live peacefully and even share the Aqsa mosque. But no more British colonies for empires that went extinct.

Gaza must be free and opened.
War repressions  must be payed to the damaged families too.

I’ve heard that the people of Gaza are the descendants of people who fled what is now Israel in 1967. So they do not want to be displaced and this is understandable.
 
But who can live in such conditions? Israel is asking them to leave, Hamas is asking them to stay and become human shields.
 
You know, I’m really angry about what’s going on. These people are not Hamas. Most of them have nothing to do with Hamas. And Egypt is not opening it’s frontiers so they can stay there and not give territory to Israel.
 
So another Heavy Metal quote: See the video clip of Sepultura called “War for territory”

[Leonardo17]

That would solve nothing, is a highly arguable statement, and is highly unrealistic to happen.
Do you have a better, more plausible solution?

No. The only solution I see is:

1-admitting the right of Muslims, Christians and Jews to the holy mosque. Preventing any extremist (either Muslim, Jew or Christian to seize the place for their own).

2-freeing Gaza citizens from their concentration camp and pay its citizens war reparations.

3-Making a joint government of Muslims, Jews and Christians to lead the holy land. Their law would be unified just like the U.N.

If Muslims objected, they should be reminded with the truth of Christians and Jews right to worship there, and especially with this verse from the Quran:

Sura 26, The Quran:
https://quran.com/26?startingVerse=183

(181) Give full measure, and cause no loss ˹to others˺.
(182) Weigh with an even balance,
(183) and do not defraud people of their property. Nor go about spreading corruption in the land.

The mosque is not the property of Muslims alone, Jews alone or Christians alone: it's the joint property of all 3.

If Jews objected, they should be reminded with these days, and that concentration camps or brutal force will grow severe hate and repulsion from them. It will be a matter of time before Fascist deeds are eradicated naturally by the natives.

If Christians objected, they should be reminded with the days of the Crusades and how the whole Middle East fought them.

If Muslims objected, they should be reminded that they are going against their own Quran and how brute force led them before to be hated by so many, and led their lands to lose most compassion of everybody.

+ There has to be a two state solution.
 

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But you don’t seem to get this. The enemy is not Muslims. The enemy is not the Jews either.
 
People who want to keep their power, just like oil companies who want to keep selling their product despite the fact that the world is probably going to end because of that, want to keep the Status Quo.
 
They turned the spiritual aspect of Islam into a political ideology than is used to bind together the entire area that is known as “the Muslim world”.
 
And Israel is actually the main pillar of political Islam. Without the devil Israel / USA / Europe how do you enforce the wearing of the Hijab on the streets of Teheran? – You can’t
 
The same works for the Jewish version of Theocracy. Netanyahu is an authoritarian leader who is allied to two Jewish-theocratic / extreme Zionist political parties.
 
And religion (in truth) wants us to see reality as it is. Is there anything that’s real in all of this? –No.
 
It’s just a tiny piece of land on the surface of the globe and if thing go on the way they do it may not even be inhabitable by 2070 or so. So we all need to see this and act accordingly

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[Leonardo17]

Maybe, that is a risk.
But again, it may be that such a risk, which I don't think will turn into WW3, is the best possible option.

You aren't yet familiar with Winter.  He has been predicting WWIII for a long time.

I am surprised we haven't ventured into Gog and Magog territory yet.

You get kinda used to it.

I don’t know about this issue a lot. But just like the Trumpists of America or the white supremacy groups, political Islam has some “great replacement theories” of their own.
 
They didn’t blow these towers out of pure Barbary. They have some fantastical plans of how the world is actually working and they are acting in accordance with these beliefs. Hitler’s inner circles also has such false beliefs with magic rituals etc.
 
And a small note on that: True religion does warn believers on such deceptions or self-deceptions.