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RE: Theists are Insecure
March 1, 2012 at 11:53 pm
(This post was last modified: March 1, 2012 at 11:55 pm by Whateverist.)
(March 1, 2012 at 11:39 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You're prepared to demonstrate that it actually occurred, that it was "something that happened in the past"? It is a human sacrifice only because many christians demand that it is so. I say its a fairy tale about human sacrifice, and no such sacrifice was made. Jesus-as-human rights activist. Give me a break. When's the last time you heard a human rights activist advocating for thought crimes, or damnation? How about my human rights to opt out of oppression by a tyrannical dictator? Our human rights to seek redress for the unbelievable abuses visited upon us by the very same...so the story would have us believe?
You might want to hop over to wikipedia and have a look at Swedenborgian Christianity. It lacks much of what is preposterous regarding hell, how you get there (or heaven) and judgment. For example everyone of any religion self selects where they go. It still insists on an afterlife for disembodied consciousness. So it is less morally absurd than most forms of Christianity but plenty absurd regarding dualism.
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RE: Theists are Insecure
March 1, 2012 at 11:55 pm
(This post was last modified: March 1, 2012 at 11:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Nah, I'll let Chad be the knowledge bearer. I'd rather hear a christian argue against these things for a change.
(I'm mildly familiar, long time ago, what stuck with me was yet another claim to divine personal revelation, same garbage different face. "These revealed claims are incorrect, my revealed claims are superior." Denied.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Theists are Insecure
March 2, 2012 at 12:07 am
(March 1, 2012 at 11:04 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Prove your claim that the church was corrupt from its inception.
There is one damning piece of evidence, that strikes at the heart of any Christian Church. It is your own convoluted, mistranslated, contradictory, and downright evil book of Christian truth, The Bible. Whatever translation you use. Bring it on, show us how it is pure. Otherwise you have nothing!
Prove the Bible is not corrupt, and maybe the story is not a myth. Good luck with that!
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Mark Twain
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RE: Theists are Insecure
March 2, 2012 at 12:11 am
(March 1, 2012 at 11:55 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Nah, I'll let Chad be the knowledge bearer. I'd rather hear a christian argue against these things for a change.
(I'm mildly familiar, long time ago, what stuck with me was yet another claim to divine personal revelation, same garbage different face. "These revealed claims are incorrect, my revealed claims are superior." Denied.)
Cool. I'd never heard of it at all. Compared to the severe rule following and eagerness to comply with all God's edicts in order to get their tickets to heaven stamped, I find the beliefs of this sect much more appealing. Of course, you'd have to be inclined to look for non-natural answers to life's questions to choose any form of Christianity.
In their favor, I suspect their beliefs would be much less self-damaging than those of most Christian sects. Much less pressure to follow the herd and abdicate personal responsibility, I think.
Chipan,
I wonder if your religion leads its adherents to be skeptical of science. I always think it should be easy for a theist to embrace science for what it is. Does your faith teach you that the bible is the literal word of God? My sense is probably no. You guys don't think the earth is only 6000 years old and that people used to ride around on dinosaurs and all that rubbish, do you?
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RE: Theists are Insecure
March 2, 2012 at 12:13 am
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2012 at 12:17 am by The Grand Nudger.)
One system of faith that requires the believer to abandon their ability to think critically is better than another faith that requires the same? I disagree. I'd be hard pressed to think of anything more harmful than the suppression of precisely what defines and distinguishes us from the rest of the creatures here. The thing that is directly responsible for the quality of life we enjoy, the thing that granted us the opportunity to even consider becoming more than just another animal wandering the grasslands of prehistory.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Theists are Insecure
March 2, 2012 at 12:14 am
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2012 at 12:18 am by chi pan.)
Pendragon, it's hard to keep track of all your conversations but let me just explain what I believe. I am Protestant though I do not affiliate myself with any denomination. I don't believe in many of the catholic beliefs that are in their catechism of the catholic church examples: purgatory, divinity of marry, and the eternal torture of Jesus. I believe Jesus died for our sins once and doesn't have to do it again. I would say my beliefs are biblical because I don't accept any extra biblical beliefs about God.
(March 2, 2012 at 12:11 am)whateverist Wrote: (March 1, 2012 at 11:55 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Nah, I'll let Chad be the knowledge bearer. I'd rather hear a christian argue against these things for a change.
(I'm mildly familiar, long time ago, what stuck with me was yet another claim to divine personal revelation, same garbage different face. "These revealed claims are incorrect, my revealed claims are superior." Denied.)
Cool. I'd never heard of it at all. Compared to the severe rule following and eagerness to comply with all God's edicts in order to get their tickets to heaven stamped, I find the beliefs of this sect much more appealing. Of course, you'd have to be inclined to look for non-natural answers to life's questions to choose any form of Christianity.
In their favor, I suspect their beliefs would be much less self-damaging than those of most Christian sects. Much less pressure to follow the herd and abdicate personal responsibility, I think.
Chipan,
I wonder if your religion leads its adherents to be skeptical of science. I always think it should be easy for a theist to embrace science for what it is. Does your faith teach you that the bible is the literal word of God? My sense is probably no. You guys don't think the earth is only 6000 years old and that people used to ride around on dinosaurs and all that rubbish, do you?
I do embrace the creation story as a literal testament. I don't accept any science that tries to say millions and billions of years ago. I don't accept any science that tries to explain prehistoric events. Otherwise I don't have anything against other scientific theories.
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
-4th verse of the american national anthem
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RE: Theists are Insecure
March 2, 2012 at 12:19 am
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2012 at 12:19 am by The Grand Nudger.)
In short, where evidence conflicts with his beliefs, he dismisses the evidence.  What could possibly go wrong?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Theists are Insecure
March 2, 2012 at 12:20 am
(March 2, 2012 at 12:19 am)Rhythm Wrote: In short, where evidence conflicts with his beliefs, he dismisses the evidence. What could possibly go wrong?
What evidence is for the big bang?
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
-4th verse of the american national anthem
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RE: Theists are Insecure
March 2, 2012 at 12:29 am
Stop being such a lazy douche and type that exact phrase into google.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Theists are Insecure
March 2, 2012 at 12:35 am
I lead a small Swedenborg study group. Some of the stuff does sound batshit crazy and yet there's something in the general structure of his theology that I find very compelling and has helped me grow spiritually. So don't ask me to defend all the "problem texts" all at once. This is fun, so I plan to hang around. "Same garbage different face." bit of an oversimplification, but I understand the sentiment.
As for "something that happened in the past", I can only say it is reasonable to believe that Jesus was a real person that was really crucified. Every bit as reasonable as believing that Socrates was a real person that was forced to drink hemlock. I don't need absolute certainty to run with an idea. Do it all the time at work and at home. I just need to think that what I believe is reasonable.
Your human right is the right to be the best human you can be. But by choice we inflict misery upon ourselves through our inhumanity to each other.
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