Theists are Insecure

[Norfolk And Chance]

Then I respectfully request that you make no further claims to knowledge.

Request denied. I do not claim ignorance but do not wish to wast my time when you obviously don't wish to listen. You have no interest in what I say just want me to rant and pick apart my beliefs. I will not take part of this while you appear to be a neutrino unaffected by any of my comments but to your convenience jump out at every opportunity to bash my claims. You are a waste of my time.

Incorrect.

You are a waste of your own time.

[Neo-Scholastic]

People generally tend to embrace religions and philosophies faiths with which they are familiar. Nobody has time to critically examine every single major faith and philosophic system. Much less all the various sects and schools of thought within each. At some point you just have to commit yourself to a tradition and run with it. If that means atheism than by all means run with it. If its religion then run with that. Either way I think people should probe the depths of their beliefs and see how far it takes them. If what you find feeds your specific needs then fine.

I’m not looking for a fire insurance policy or justification for telling other people what to do. Christianity, and the Swedenborg tradition in particular, forces me wrestle with issues of metaphysics, the nature of consciousness, freewill, revelation, etc. Questions I find t interesting. I consider my faith a theological trampoline. I throw myself against it and see how high it takes me. Then I fall back into it for another round.

[The Grand Nudger]

You don't have to do any such thing. If you committed yourself to your own faith out of laziness or incuriousness, well, what can be said?

[Neo-Scholastic]

You don't have to do any such thing. If you committed yourself to your own faith out of laziness or incuriousness, well, what can be said?

Fair enough, many people do not bother to care or examine their beliefs. And for most of those it doesn't really affect their lives that much anyway. Self-righteous people remain self-righteous regardless of whether they are atheists or theists.

Nobody has to probe their beliefs, but I think they should. But committing to a faith does not necessarily mean holding beliefs irrationally against all evidence.

Try thinking of it this way. When you actively pursue a field of knowledge you commit yourself to study in the hope that it will payoff in the end. You temporarily accept the veracity of some claims until you can verify them for yourself. You believe that religion is a dead end. As for me I believe the theology can augment and coexist with general metaphysics.

But in the meantime we can struggle with the big issues together.

[The Grand Nudger]

Whether or not religion is a dead end has nothing to do with anything I believe. We've looked, we've found nothing, time to call off the dogs and leverage our efforts in searching something that might produce results.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Whether or not religion is a dead end has nothing to do with anything I believe. We've looked, we've found nothing, time to call off the dogs and leverage our efforts in searching something that might produce results.

You looked and you found nothing. Hopefully you will not object if I attempt to point out something I believe you may have missed. I would expect the same from you.

So returning to the topic, do I sound insecure?

[The Grand Nudger]

If only I were the only one who had been involved in the search eh? What you mean to say here is that you feel that you, personally, may have discovered something that has completely escaped detection otherwise. I'd say that's highly unlikely, but who knows, we'll see. I wouldn't know how secure or insecure you seem, haven't gotten to know you. Even then, how you seem/how you feel, meh. The followers of Zues felt similarly comfortable in their fantasies.

[Neo-Scholastic]

You are the only one involved in your search. You base you opinions on the extent of your knowledge. Even if you appropriate the finding of other people's search, it is still your responsibility alone to verify its truth for yourself or by confidence in the source before you make it your own.

Worship of Zues would have been wholly appropriate considering the extent of ancient knowledge about cosmology, etc. Unless you are suggesting that had you been born in ancient Greece you still would have been a freethinking bright?

So again do I sound insecure?

[downbeatplumb]

Wow just googled sweneborgian and found out about some more sily beliefs, just when you thought you'd seen it all.........

[The Grand Nudger]

A freethinking bright...lol. I'm am neither freethinking, nor necessarily bright, 90% of the time (ask my wife). It's difficult for me to believe anything I'm told at face value, always has been. I'm also habitually antagonistic. While some of this is likely my upbringing, it would be unfair to our species to claim that none of this is hardwired. If we were slaves to whatever times we were born in matters of belief, then what spring did all of the many revisions to religions flow from? I may have been amenable to the idea of Zues, but probably not in all of his particulars (nor did every greek believe in the gods, if you weren't already aware of this, atheism is as old as any religious tradition you see before you today. Older, if you consider how long we've been here vs how long we've been bowing to gods). Who are you to say I wouldn't have been exactly who I am now, simply with less evidence behind my complete and utter lack of belief? They had no more reason to believe in Zues than you have to believe in your god (or the ridiculous claims attached to your prophet). Why do you feel compelled to defend their motivations for belief (and yes, this would seem to be an indicator of insecurity...in my estimation. If you must defend the superstitions of others to excuse your own)? But again, how you seem does not necessarily equate to how you feel.