Free Will vs Divine Won't - How God Favours Evil

[C Rod]

This doesn't really answer the essence of the "why did god allow heaven to be corrupted" argumet and raises another question for me. If people are not bound by their nature, biology, and upbringing then why do some choose good and some choose "evil"? It seems to me as though free will doesn't explain much in the way of why people choose the way that they do. It seems to me that people exist with certain things that effect their supposed free will and cause them to act in a certain way. On another note we are back to saying god couldn't do something, create a situation in which free will exists and where people on choose good. Why even set up the choice in the first place? Why create the rules so that choice is important? Also, to play devil's advocate (sorry, corny I know), Lucifer chose out of independence, a desire for self-determination, courage, and intelligence. Well it's all mythology so I guess I can interpret it any way I choose.

You can be influenced just like you can also not be influenced. If you could only chose good, would that be free will? And he had that situation in the garden and Lucifer carried out the other option, brought about the other choice. Do you like your conscious, you can choose anything and reap its imminent consequence, conjure any thought good or bad, and do anything for whatever purpose?
Lucifer choose to be more than God, wanted to be more than what his creator gave him and he was given everything, except the one thing he didn't have(God's position), do you think he needed that or deserved it?

[mediamogul]

This doesn't really answer the essence of the "why did god allow heaven to be corrupted" argumet and raises another question for me. If people are not bound by their nature, biology, and upbringing then why do some choose good and some choose "evil"? It seems to me as though free will doesn't explain much in the way of why people choose the way that they do. It seems to me that people exist with certain things that effect their supposed free will and cause them to act in a certain way. On another note we are back to saying god couldn't do something, create a situation in which free will exists and where people on choose good. Why even set up the choice in the first place? Why create the rules so that choice is important? Also, to play devil's advocate (sorry, corny I know), Lucifer chose out of independence, a desire for self-determination, courage, and intelligence. Well it's all mythology so I guess I can interpret it any way I choose.

You can be influenced just like you can also not be influenced. If you could only chose good, would that be free will? And he had that situation in the garden and Lucifer carried out the other option, brought about the other choice. Do you like your conscious, you can choose anything and reap its imminent consequence, conjure any thought good or bad, and do anything for whatever purpose?
Lucifer choose to be more than God, wanted to be more than what his creator gave him and he was given everything, except the one thing he didn't have(God's position), do you think he needed that or deserved it?

So god was unable to create a situation in which the garden of eden would not be corrupted? If he could foresee that Lucifer would rebel and corrupt his creation why create him? God was unable to create the laws that govern existence in such a way that "freewill" can exist and that people would only choose good? It still seems the claim is that god was incapable of doing something. Also, if god is bound by rules himself then he is not really free either. If god does not choose evil but is free then it is a demonstration that a free thing can exist that always chooses good. Seems like special pleading to say god can be free and all good but that humans cannot.

[C Rod]

Apologists William Lane Craig & Alvin Plantinga try to argue that God allows evil because it results in a greater good (more people being Saved). But presumably not all evils result in a greater good (for instance if I blew up the sun then no extra souls would be saved than if I hadn't). So god - who has acted before - will act if in the long-term the greater good is served. Otherwise, he will let millions suffer (many of whom will never know of or convert to Christianity).

All very well. But then I wonders: why should I be good? If I do a bad thing and it is allowed, surely then it must result in a greater good? Surely we should all just do as we feel and let Yahweh sort it all out? This god, the one that Craig says (to paraphrase CS Lewis) "is not a tame lion", is not cuddly but calculating. And their apologetics basically undermines any basis of morality.

How do you feel about someone forcing you to do something you don't want to do? How do feel about mercy? Is control of ones absolute choices moral, is it good to force people to do what they don't want to? He gave us this ability, this choice, awareness and we can do good or we can abuse it for self gain but that is our choice and our reward, not His. Ask yourself why there is evil in our everyday life; why do people rape, murder, and steal? It cant be because of our society, or how we raise our kids or how we treat each other, its none of the obvious reasons( i couldn't be more sarcastic right now). But the opposite end of the spectrum is even more powerful, this ability can be used to do wonderful, spectacular, inspiring things, the creation of beauty and art, brilliant, thought provoking ideas, and paramount expressions of emotion. But i guess you want him to take just screw the whole thing, i guess you can pray for it.

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I stand with choice and the freedom to exercise said choice to the extent of one's will. God takes that away from everyone or gives us the ability to do only good then i think we cease to by ourselves and even cease to be conscious.

You do realize that saying this is essentially making the argument that if kids have to be raped and people murdered, that is an acceptable price to pay so you can have the freedom of choice, do you not?

Check what i answered to oxymoron.

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It's said that for evil to flourish all good men have to do is nothing. Apparently God is doing nothing to stem the tide of evil, which means he is not an all-good god.

Its said if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.
Check my post to oxymoron. And also, do you do any good or is this God keeping you from being all you can be morally?

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So god was unable to create a situation in which the garden of eden would not be corrupted? If he could foresee that Lucifer would rebel and corrupt his creation why create him? God was unable to create the laws that govern existence in such a way that "freewill" can exist and that people would only choose good? It still seems the claim is that god was incapable of doing something. Also, if god is bound by rules himself then he is not really free either. If god does not choose evil but is free then it is a demonstration that a free thing can exist that always chooses good. Seems like special pleading to say god can be free and all good but that humans cannot.

What if he is bound by some rules, rules outside of him or even created by him(like a constitution) that he acknowledges, i don't think it takes away from his supernatural power to create beings and control said beings. Can you imagine having free will but only being able to do good, its a paradox, might as well see if he can make that burrito that's so hot he couldn't eat it because that is above all things the most necessary. He lets the pieces do what they want knowing what they're going to do, he has mercy on those that deserve mercy and punishes all those that deserve punishment; the other option is you don't exist because one ruins it for the whole group(remember when your teacher had that rule, that was the worst, not fair at all). I would say God knows of evil he just doesn't indulge in it or live like the Joker, its says he gets jealous and angry, but Hes got the power, it matter how he wills it.