Any Evidence For A Historical Jesus?

[radorth]

OK, everyone, continuing our game of Logical Fallacy Bingo.

So far everyone should have checked off

Appeal to Authority
Poisoning the Well

I assumed since you do it, it was OK.

Beyond the fact that this is a false accusation, as we've already reviewed.

Announcer: "Tu Quoque"

Well do you admit you used two logical fallacies to make your theories work? Argument from silence and "false in one part false in all"?

Announcer: "Argumentum Ad Neuseum! Argumentum Ad Neuseum!"

Well sure if you want to die in your sins over "minutiae" like who rolled the stone away.

Announcer: "Appeal to Fear! Appeal to Fear!"

And I don't think any Gospel writer lied. I think they reported what they heard with integrity and I have no reason to think they did not. Did they hear wrong sometimes? No doubt.

Announcer: "Argument from Incredulity!"

No I just know that I have experienced what Jesus promised, after not a few stumbles, and being anything but a Christian seems childish and irrational to me now. Anyone who doubts the grace of the Christian God hasn't met me.

Announcer: "Appeal to Emotion! Appeal to Emotion!"

I think that is irrelevant. Having spoken in tongues and visited the third heaven (I believe0 without even seeking either, I know there is a God.

Announcer: "Appeal to batshittery! Appeal to Batshittery!"

Which does not mean they approved of it. Actually at the same time your man Voltaire was writing that slavery was necessary to the economy, many Quakers and most Methodists were condemning it.

Announcer: "Poisoning the Well" (already ticked off)

That's the proven problem with atheist beliefs. You have to have a police state to go with them because people have no other restraint, no internal policeman.

Announcer: "Appeal to Consequences! Appeal to Consequences!"

Anyone want to call "bingo" yet?

3 out of 8 if we make a cynical stretch. Not bad. Interesting that you would shoot the messenger immediately after hearing what Jesus has already saved you from via men like, Whitefield, Locke, Newton and Bacon-- all Christians. Not to mention putting the atheist murderers of 60 million innocent people out of business.

---

radorth, from the past few pages I've gathered that you wanted DeistPaladin to name a contradiction within scripture. I thought I would give this a go. I want to do this in a particular way though; by asking you a theological question. Here we go: is there an unforgivable sin?

Yes, at least one, which only religious people are known to have commiitted.

I think I know what's coming, but go ahead.

[FallentoReason]

Yes, at least one, which only religious people are known to have commiitted.

I think I know what's coming, but go ahead.

Ok, well I was hoping I could get a better understanding from you by hearing your answer first, but that's alright.

Is there an unforgivable sin?

NO
Acts 13:39 and by him all that believe are justified from all things.

YES
Mark 3:29 but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Luke 12:10 but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Quite explicit yesses and no. Or maybe I've misunderstood something? I'm not sure.

[DeistPaladin]

Quite explicit yesses and no. Or maybe I've misunderstood something? I'm not sure.

Cue the obtuse exegesis in 3... 2... 1...

---

3 out of 8 if we make a cynical stretch. Not bad.

Translation: "I'm not quite as irrational as you say I am."

Interesting that you would shoot the messenger immediately after hearing what Jesus has already saved you from via men like, Whitefield, Locke, Newton and Bacon-- all Christians.

Announcer: "Reverse Poising the Well"

Seriously, go crawl under a rock.

[radorth]

I think he was wanting contradictions in the earliest manuscripts we have of the NT. As in, "the NT was perfectly and faithfully preserved through the ages so we know exactly what Jesus said and did..." etc.

Did you even read my posts? I said I probably know more inexplicable contradictions than you do. I don't know why you would say this other than to poison the well when you know I don't believe that.

As I said, I know of two great examples, the second edition of the resurrection account in Mark and the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" story.

You got the second one right. Mark ended at 16:8 after the empty tomb is discovered. The fact that he doesn't tell of the disciples seeing Jesus means nothing. It's an argumet from silence.

You're also correct that the Gospels and NT seemed to "get better" with each book published. Did you notice, for example, how John the Baptist gets down on his knees before Jesus more and more with each Gospel account?

That involves the presumption they were changed or improved on, with zero proof. Funny how no proof works for unbelievers so often. Are you positive you are more rational and consistent in your thinking than any Christian? Like say, John Locke?

Mark: JtB debases himself, announces himself as a mere forerunner of Jesus and then baptizes Jesus.
Matthew: JtB says "hey, shouldn't you be baptizing me?" Then baptizes Jesus after being ordered to.
John: JtB never baptizes Jesus at all but just recognizes him as the lamb of God.

Um, ever see or hear of genuine humility? Matbe not. And why would anyone care, but a cynic? That's a weak one, very easily explainable. I would think any barely humble human would react like John did. I have way better contradictions than that.

Funny thing, the Mandaens, followers of JtB, continued to be rivals of the early Christians, insisting that JtB was the true Messiah and Jesus was a heretic.

Um exactly how many of these people were there. 12? But I will read any link you can provide, preferably an original source and not an assertion. I can easily find 100 people who think your moral standards are higher than Jesus' standards, and would rather worship you than he. Heh

Odd how they never seemed to get the memo of their sacred leader, huh?

And here I thought John died before he could email all his followers.

But then, Christianity always uses the policy of assimilate what you can't destroy. It's an effective tactic. So effective, the Muslims would later use it on Jesus.

That's one way of interpreting the NT. But don't forget, cynicism is not evidence of genuine skepticism.

[DeistPaladin]

Does anyone else want to try to reason with Ra-Dork for a while? I'm starting to suffer from fucktard fatigue. Even playing fallacy bingo gets old after a while.

[radorth]

Does anyone else want to try to reason with Ra-Dork for a while? I'm starting to suffer from fucktard fatigue. Even playing fallacy bingo gets old after a while.

Just when I was going to invite you over for coffee.

[FallentoReason]

Yes, at least one, which only religious people are known to have commiitted.

I think I know what's coming, but go ahead.

Ok, well I was hoping I could get a better understanding from you by hearing your answer first, but that's alright.

Is there an unforgivable sin?

NO
Acts 13:39 and by him all that believe are justified from all things.

YES
Mark 3:29 but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Luke 12:10 but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Quite explicit yesses and no. Or maybe I've misunderstood something? I'm not sure.

So, there's no explanation for the above?

[The Grand Nudger]

I'll start trying to reason with Ra when I see Ra start reasoning himself..lol. Until then it's just laugh, point, and snicker about fairy tales.

[DeistPaladin]

I'll start trying to reason with Ra when I see Ra start reasoning himself..lol. Until then it's just laugh, point, and snicker about fairy tales.

Yeah, the point when he started talking about speaking in tongues and making it to the 3rd level in Heaven (I understand it involves finding a secret door after you defeat the Foosel), I had the realization that I was spending time trying to reason with a loony tune.

[FallentoReason]

Still no answer to my contradiction. The silence is deafening..