Epicurean Paradox

[TheJackel]

Then please explain.

If you can't comprehend that argument regards to an "infinite I AM", you seriously are clueless in this debate. I almost wonder if you even know what the definition of "infinite" means, or what it would entail to understand that calling your GOD infinite "I AM" is essentially calling everyone here GOD as that would eliminate individualism all together.

Then please open and thread and explain.

Google Christian Atheists, it explains itself. I shouldn't have to sit here and hold your intellectually lazy hand.

agreed

Now if you agree, perhaps you can actually try to define your GOD for us.. If you choose the biblical GOD, then I sure hope you understand the scripture and the history involved.

Show me the carrot.

Trying to use eternal life and peoples fear of death as a preaching tool to be suggestive of evidence for your GOD and how it will magically promise you this supposed eternal life.. The carrot is the "salvation" and the fear tool is the Damnation. They work well together when you are trying to convince someone to submit their lives to an ideology, cult, or religion. Carrots are also called false promises within snake salesmen type arguments.

like what? What would be an example of a cop-out argument?

Thus far, everything you have posted. You are just running around in circles now in regards to the subject of the thread. And it's because you don't actually want to deal with, or admit to the problems in your arguments. The GOD test put forth to you seems to difficult for you to grasp, or you are intentionally trying to avoid having to deal with it.

I have been at deaths door (and even stepped in once) many times in my life. I do not fear death. Judgment on the other hand, is something I did fear. Perhaps that is why i held on to my atheist views as long as I did. (If there was no God then I could not be judged. So I need to kill the idea of God. However If there was a God then He could not rightfully judge me lest he prove himself to me.) Sound familiar?

Now I call BS made up story... And of course you fear judgement, it's the fear instilled into by your religion... And again, the idea of GOD is utter nonsense. You basically fear something that might be more powerful than you.. You are told you will burn in hell perhaps? Bascially you worship Power, and your fear of it. And btw, everyone judges you regardless, and you even judge yourself. All you need to do in life is be a good person., and if some entity demands you to love it and bow it as a GOD, it has some serious psychological issues and problems.

Actually the thought of eternity scares me a little more than an eternal nothingness. If nothing were to happen then it would not matter. If we live for an eternity everything matters.

The end of your consciousness shouldn't be scary at all. You can't be scared, feel pain, or suffer what-so-ever.. And an eternal life after death is a highway to hell and insanity. But it's a good thing to know enough science to realize you are an energy being made of atoms that will likely become emergent properties of other things. Hence, just because you turn your computer off doesn't mean the energy that displayed your desktop magically goes non-existent.. It simply no longer serves that purpose.

(By the way of the bible)

It applies regardless just because we can apply it.. Doesn't matter what GOD concept you want to play with here.

Actually I was the little boy who refused to eat anything besides hot dog chips and cookies and after loosing more than a few pounds the police were called and came to the house. Where they saw the food my mom made, and they saw my refusal to eat. where they promptly told me if I did not eat here and now they would take me to the hospital and have the doctors mash up my mothers dinner and pump it into my stomach every day till I did eat on my own. After a big fit and them telling my dad to carry me to their car I ate, and have been eating every since on my own.

Has nothing to do with children and Sudan. You can not take your life and magically apply it as a reasoning and rationality for everyone else... This seems to be a part of your problem here. Here, let me help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMXoPhgTkuY&

I say all of this to reinforce the idea that you are not a child being starved, you are a stubborn one who will not eat what has been provided.

Again pure ignorance of the real world

Question, in this life or the next? Plus do you have book chapter and verse to support your coming assertion?

This is also your problem here. You are trying to take your imagination of a supposed "next life" as some means to rationalize the reality of the problems of "this life", This life to which is the reality we actually exist in. And perhaps this reality scares you to where you need to imagine a better one you don't have to face the harshness of the reality you actually exist in. And the video I provided gives you those verses..

You are not asked to carry their burden by yourself, you are only asked to make their burden lighter. If you fail to do what has been asked of you then it is not the fault of God.

Now you are trying to move the goal post. No surprise there.. I tell you what, you give me all your GOD's powers, and the people in Sudan would be well taken care of...That right there expresses the difference between me and the supposed GOD you believe and worship. But we all know that isn't going to happen right? And you know what is most disturbing about Christianity? it discusses this place called heaven, and yet their all powerful GOD couldn't just everyone's reality heavenly to begin with without any possibility of suffering ect.. Imagine how many problems that would solve! :/ Imagine if we could kill each other... Boy that would solve some serious issues in the world to. How about food being a recreational option that doesn't involve killing other things? How about no need to compete and fight over resources?

Yes their burden is great when compared to all that you have, but what I have found in when people grow up in those situations they do not see life as a burden.

Yeah, that's why lots of people in these situations end up committing suicide... Man you really have no clue do you? And what I see here is your logic seems to be centered around your little world of you.. Do us a favor, don't try to put yourself in other peoples shoes.

Many people they we have reached out to can find happiness and contentment in what little they have.

If you think people should be happy about starving to death ect, you really lack any sort of empathy. Yeah, see if you can go to Sudan and walk by a bunch of dying children while you tell them they should be contempt and happy with what they have.. This discussion is not about the fortunate few that find happiness in the world.

For they (generally speaking) have a richness in spirit that all that you have can not provide for you. Meaning in where it counts many of them have more than you would even know to ask for.

Hold on a second while a roll my eyes at your utter ignorance.. :/

The fact that you are "done with that" means you have not asked sought or knocked as outlined in Luke 11. For the persistent neighbor did not stop till He got what he was asking for. Did you get what you were asking and seeking after?

Hold on, so if I ask GOD for a 900 trillion dollars over and over again like a nagging child begging and pleading I will magically get it? Yeah that is utter bs. If I were GOD, the naggers would be the last people to get anything they wanted. And your argument again is appealing to ignorance.. Please see the list below as most apply to that argument of yours...:

1. Ignorance
2. Fear of death
3. Brainwashing
4. Profit
5. Control of the masses
6. Power
7. Social conditioning and peer pressure
8. Parents do
9. Wanting to live forever
10. Fear of reality
11. Poor education

Next:

agreed, but after more than 2 millennia if a measure of people did not actually come in contact with God. the religion would die out or change to meet the coming generations demands. history records this pattern over and over again.

All it did was play consume X-religion, practice it or take it over and then evolve to adapt the religion into something it never was to begin with. You now have Christianity trying to take over concepts like Pantheism, and Solipsism ect.. And of course people met your GOD, it was a volcano for much of it's existence that eventually became personafide to the point where Christians today magically think it's an actual Deity in the sky.. But of course most of them never actually bothered to read their bibles what-so-ever, or do any actual research on the history of their deity or how it came to be. Nor do they seem to understand it came from it's polytheistic roots. Yes, it's a myth... Hence, do you believe the Volcano GOD Pelee exists? Probably not right? So why would you believe the Volcano GOD Yahweh exists?

Better I have a link:
http://www.biblegateway.com/

Sorry, that doesn't point to where GOD is... That's about as relevant as me pointing out where Pixie fairies exist:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/18418...1841813133

That is just It I am to do nothing but pointing the way. If you want proof then petition God yourself. all i am here to do is show you the form that tells you how to do this.

Again, many religious cults ect will tell me the same thing.. You aren't providing anything of interest, relevance, or value here. And why should I petition GOD? I don't need to Petition the Pantheist GOD, and I have no problem pointing out and observing their GOD. So why is it that you have such a problem with this? Oh your GOD must be shy..., or it's just the volcano GOD in the bible..

I don't know what I am doing wrong here, maybe someone else can explain it in a way that you can understand. I will try one more time. The God of the bible does not claim to be Omni benevolent. God offers Agape love which is very conditional. In fact there are four words in the Greek that all get translated into the word Love.

Greek is not the language you should be using here.

none of which (in their original form) mean unconditional love. This idea of unconditional love is a construct of religion apart from the bible. Even apart from the Koine Greek itself so it could not be apart of Christianity as it was intended.

Only true love is unconditional.. And most of the bible contradicts the "GOD is Love" phrase you find in your Greek translations... It leads to another mind wipe that if you love god you will magically know GOD, and GOD will know and love you in your heart. But only if you "worship him", and love him. If not, look out! And if you worship another GOD...Oh man that volcanic Jealousy fires up..

Again the omni aspects of God are not a biblical teaching, so none. My God is not limited by the omni aspects others would place on Him.

Like this example? :

Omniscience:

Job 37:16

Do you know the balancings of the clouds,
the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

[Drich]

[quote='TheJackel' pid='274669' dateline='1334800999']
Now if you agree, perhaps you can actually try to define your GOD for us.. If you choose the biblical GOD, then I sure hope you understand the scripture and the history involved.
[quote]
The explanation has been posted.

[quote]Trying to use eternal life and peoples fear of death as a preaching tool to be suggestive of evidence for your GOD and how it will magically promise you this supposed eternal life.. The carrot is the "salvation" and the fear tool is the Damnation. They work well together when you are trying to convince someone to submit their lives to an ideology, cult, or religion. Carrots are also called false promises within snake salesmen type arguments.[/quote]
Maybe you misunderstood. Show me the carrot in what I had originally posted:

"God is All Good but not to the fickle standards of man."


[quote]Thus far, everything you have posted. You are just running around in circles now in regards to the subject of the thread. And it's because you don't actually want to deal with, or admit to the problems in your arguments. The GOD test put forth to you seems to difficult for you to grasp, or you are intentionally trying to avoid having to deal with it.[/quote]So the best you can do is speak in none specific generalities?
Either you do not know what is being said or you just want to argue for the sake of argueing. I want to discuss specifics. If you can not then there is nothing more to be said.

[quote]Now I call BS made up story... [/quote]
Believe anything you like my life nor my experiences are not subject to your approval.

[quote]Actually the thought of eternity scares me a little more than an eternal nothingness. If nothing were to happen then it would not matter. If we live for an eternity everything matters.
[/quote]

[quote]The end of your consciousness shouldn't be scary at all. You can't be scared, feel pain, or suffer what-so-ever.. [/quote] Your not even reading what i am taking the time to write. Either that or your using one red herring after another to try and retain control of the topic.. Either way You're proving to be a waste of time...

I do not ask for much. I read all of what you all write, and i only ask that you do the same. If you can not take the time to address what was written in it's proper context, the conversation ends.

You by the way and nature of your comments have ended this conversation.

Perhaps if you wish to take my last post and show you can stay on topic and address what was written then we can continue.

[The Grand Nudger]

Seems to me that everyone who engages you on this topic is "wasting your time", maybe you should just give it a rest? "Pearls before swine" and all that bullshit.

[Drich]

Seems to me that everyone who engages you on this topic is "wasting your time", maybe you should just give it a rest? "Pearls before swine" and all that bullshit.

Indeed.

Thanks for the reminder.