Shit man, im a natural born killer!

[KichigaiNeko]

I saw the OP title and my immediate thought was....

"Well der! Humans are the main predators on this planet" any other thought is just mental masturbation.

[Cinjin]

How can any of your questions be answered legitimately? They can't ... at least not with any kind of authority.

One man's nobility is another man's failure. One man's upbringing turns him into Shakespeare while another man's upbringing turns him into Jack the Ripper. Humans don't fit into nice neat little universally explainable packages and it's pretentious wanna-be philosopher types that raise these pointless questions ... often with an agenda I might add.

You may very well be a natural born serial killer, but that doesn't mean that 100,000 other people born on the same day will have a taste for blood. Rather the opposite happens. I am both good and evil. I have done great things and helped many people. I have also done bad things and selfishly only helped myself. You see, none of us are shackled to your tired ideas about the human condition. You want to put the human race (or likely the human soul) into a nice tight little box with a pretty universal stamp on the top marked and labeled according to your own ideas about your god.

These types of OPs are so tiresome.

[frankiej]

I'm a natural born lover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HdBiWEbyzY

[NoMoreFaith]

Nobody here would argue here that man is a natural being.

Why wouldn't we? Would we argue that he is a supernatural being? Of course man is a natural being.

Most people think that if its nature then it has to be good right?

If it's nature, by default Neutral, it as a concept can have no moral values.

People justify smoking a little weed.. because it comes from the earth "its natural" Some people justify homosexuality because its "natural" and other animal species practice it. Or the example i can most relate to, its natural for people to want to try diffenent things that they are told not to, such as drugs and alcohol. They may have some choice at the beginning but once the hooks go in and they become addicted. To be "high" becomes their "natural" state and to be anything other than feels supremely "un natural"

People justify smoking weed not because its natural, deadly nightshade is natural, but people don't eat that. Its justified mainly on the harm principle that if you are doing no harm to other people. Likewise would go with homosexuality, what does it matter what people do in private if they aren't hurting anyone.
Addictive drugs cause harm, and the addiction themselves can lead to harm to themselves and others which is the primary reason for them to be considered immoral.

Do you think human beings are born evil and have to learn to be good?

I think human beings are born neutral, as a social creature. Learning to live socially successfully with the inherent values of that society becoming ingrained through childhood.

or do you think we are born good and at some point turn evil or have evil tendencies now and then?

Born Neutral, again, what is considered good and evil is dictated by the society. The causes of anti-social behaviour (rather than the label evil) are rooted in individual experiences within that society that may cause rebellion against certain accepted rules.

Most behaviour is derived from nurture rather than nature.

Its kind of scary to think but there are alot of people that wont kill you simply because they dont want to go to jail for a long time.

Or go to hell because merely because they thought about something sinful.

Some people will kill you and not care if they go to jail for it. These kind of people usually have had a bad childhood, no guidence and nobody to give a crap about them their whole life.

Hence nurture over nature in most things. The nature is to avoid pain, enjoy pleasure and ensure survival. The nuture is how to limit these things towards the survival of the society which supports these things.

A wolf can survive by itself, but it is more likely to survive, enjoy pleasure and avoid pain being part of a pack and adhering to the pack rules.

If we are souless matter and its all random, then the feelings we feel, the bonds we make with other people, our thoughts and beliefs, everything. Its all just a never ending chain of chemical reactions.

why are you concerned with how anybody is treated? animal rights? equality for all men and women? fairness?
Why is it wrong when somebody cuts me off on the highway to beat their brains out with a hammer? Thats what comes natural to me at 1st thought. Its natural to lie to get out of trouble or get ahead. its natural to kill those that oppose you.

Its quite simple. Life is a wonderful experience, and in order to enjoy it, relies on a constant mutual agreement not to inflict harm. This is how the Golden Rule becomes so basic to most moral outlooks.
Life is wonderful, so I don't mess with you, and you don't mess with me.
You can breach those rules if you like, but society will protect itself like an organism, weeding out unhealthy aspects through law.
Sometimes these aspects get out of control, and society disintergrates.

This is why, most societies have a similar consensus on basic morality, because those that don't.. don't survive. You can draw certain parallels with natural selection.

How is man the only animal that can defy his very nature?

I don't think that we do. We do what is necessary to survive like all things in nature. Part of survival in a social group is adhering to the social rules which support our beneficial way of life.
Failing to do so, will be detrimental to either our own survival, or to our pleasures.

[Anomalocaris]

How is man the only animal that can defy his very nature? We compare ourselves to animals on various issues. None of them has the ability to defy their nature.

What do you mean? Your nature is to be a stupid infantile moron whose vision is limited to embracing some bronze age low brow tattle and fantasizing about the power of some no good layabout meglomaniac called jesus, and thus be an embarrassment to all your fellow human beings who actually use power given to them by evolution to better understand themselves and their world in the last two thousand years.

You have not defied your nature. You remain the piece of Christian shit you were meant to be.

[libalchris]

---

Or arent we all i should say? Nobody here would argue here that man is a natural being. Most people think that if its nature then it has to be good right? People justify smoking a little weed.. because it comes from the earth "its natural" Some people justify homosexuality because its "natural" and other animal species practice it. Or the example i can most relate to, its natural for people to want to try diffenent things that they are told not to, such as drugs and alcohol. They may have some choice at the beginning but once the hooks go in and they become addicted. To be "high" becomes their "natural" state and to be anything other than feels supremely "un natural"

Then we have the ugly side of nature. Some animals eat their young. Human beings theist and atheist commit horrible crimes against their fellow man. Nature is survival of the fittest. Only the strong survive and the runt dies with no compassion or second thought.

Do you think human beings are born evil and have to learn to be good? or do you think we are born good and at some point turn evil or have evil tendencies now and then?

Its kind of scary to think but there are alot of people that wont kill you simply because they dont want to go to jail for a long time. Some people will kill you and not care if they go to jail for it. These kind of people usually have had a bad childhood, no guidence and nobody to give a crap about them their whole life. So they are left to figure things out on their own and what they figure out sometimes is that life isnt sacred or "worth anything".

This question goes out to the people who believe that we are made up of energy and when we die the energy disperses back into the universe.

If we are souless matter and its all random, then the feelings we feel, the bonds we make with other people, our thoughts and beliefs, everything. Its all just a never ending chain of chemical reactions.

why are you concerned with how anybody is treated? animal rights? equality for all men and women? fairness?
Why is it wrong when somebody cuts me off on the highway to beat their brains out with a hammer? Thats what comes natural to me at 1st thought. Its natural to lie to get out of trouble or get ahead. its natural to kill those that oppose you.

How is man the only animal that can defy his very nature? We compare ourselves to animals on various issues. None of them has the ability to defy their nature.

---

Naturalistic Fallacy alert!

[The Heff]

Its kind of scary to think but there are alot of people that wont kill you simply because they dont want to go to jail for a long time.

It's even more scary to know that there are people who will kill you simply for not believing in the same invisible sky-daddy that they do.

I do not "QFT" as such, but this reply is just too perfect to not be quoted.

I would not kill a Christian for being a Christian, but a Christian would kill me for not being a Christian.

And as far as the natural world goes, it's as beautiful as it is brutal, without the need for morals on which you attempt to judge it.

[Cyberman]

Isn't it interesting how atheists are supposed to be the arrogant ones, when we tend to accept and even find glory, if I may use the term, in our position in the natural world without imposing our morality onto it? Not to mention not dismissing it as corrupt and sinful when it doesn't meet our lofty ideals.

[Nine]

---

Its kind of scary to think but there are alot of people that wont kill you simply because they dont want to go to jail for a long time.

It's even more scary to know that there are people who will kill you simply for not believing in the same invisible sky-daddy that they do.

I do not "QFT" as such, but this reply is just too perfect to not be quoted.

I would not kill a Christian for being a Christian, but a Christian would kill me for not being a Christian.

And as far as the natural world goes, it's as beautiful as it is brutal, without the need for morals on which you attempt to judge it.

---

Surely there is no difference as far as not doing it because you don't want to go to hell and not doing it because you don't want to go to prison. Isn't hell basically god's Guantanamo? Personally they idea of prison is a secondary to I like to be nice to the other peoples.

[Ace Otana]

why are you concerned with how anybody is treated? animal rights? equality for all men and women? fairness?
Why is it wrong when somebody cuts me off on the highway to beat their brains out with a hammer? Thats what comes natural to me at 1st thought. Its natural to lie to get out of trouble or get ahead. its natural to kill those that oppose you.

How is man the only animal that can defy his very nature? We compare ourselves to animals on various issues. None of them has the ability to defy their nature.

Being social and compassionate is part of our nature. It's what keeps us together. We survive in numbers, in social gatherings. If we were devoid of this, it's likely we wouldn't of made it this far. If we went out to kill each other, we'd go extinct. The reason why many of us seem unable to wilfully harm or kill someone is because of our social nature. Those who have no problems tend to have some kind of mental illness. In extreme cases, psychopathic. Which is why rapists and murderers seem to feel no guilt or lack of will to do what they do. I couldn't bring myself to do what they can. How one is brought up and whether they poses some kind of mental illness determines the sort of person they become.

Take away the idea of a god and some moral authority in religion, could you honestly go out side and harm someone simply because you wanted to? Could you wilfully with no guilt....harm or kill someone?