Shit man, im a natural born killer!

[jess_essential]

"Sky-daddy". Ha!

[Epimethean]

" i realize trying to convert anybody who isnt ready is like telling a heroin addict he must get clean."

More like the heroin addict trying to explain the health benefits of his drug to non-addicts.

[Kayenneh]

Nature is survival of the fittest. Only the strong survive and the runt dies with no compassion or second thought.

Sigh.. Nature is indeed about the survival of the fittest, but fittest doesn't necessarily mean strongest or fastest. It means having the right set of genes in a particular environment.

Do you think human beings are born evil and have to learn to be good? or do you think we are born good and at some point turn evil or have evil tendencies now and then?

Evil and good are concepts created by man. Good and evil can't be measured objectively, it all comes down to the culture one was brought up in.

Its kind of scary to think but there are alot of people that wont kill you simply because they dont want to go to jail for a long time.

It's kind of scary that anyone would reason this way. Me not killing people does not stem from a fear of repercussion, but from a will not to kill. It's as simple as that.

If we are souless matter and its all random, then the feelings we feel, the bonds we make with other people, our thoughts and beliefs, everything. Its all just a never ending chain of chemical reactions. Why are you concerned with how anybody is treated? animal rights? equality for all men and women? fairness?

Respect. The golden rule. Because when people of a community takes care of each other, it's a nicer place for everyone to live in.
And btw, animals don't have rights. In order to have rights, you have to have responsibilities. But as a human I think it's decent to treat sentient beings with care. This is the only world we can be sure to live in, let's make it a nice one for as many as possible.

Why is it wrong when somebody cuts me off on the highway to beat their brains out with a hammer? Thats what comes natural to me at 1st thought.

You are scaring me now, if killing, because of being cut in line by someone, is your first response. Put your shit in perspective. Is someones life worth less than one position in the line?!

How is man the only animal that can defy his very nature? We compare ourselves to animals on various issues.

Of course we can't defy our nature. What humans do, is in human nature. We can compare ourselves to all living things and find similarities and differences. It all comes down to how much DNA we share, really.

[Disciple]

I accept that you see the beauty in mountains, trees, rivers, stars etc. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The real question is do you see the physics in all those things? For example, stars are not simply dots of light forming pretty patterns in the sky. They are mindbogglingly immense nuclear fusion reactors held together by their own gravity; with the obvious exception of our own familiar Sun, exactly 100% of them are so far away from our world that, barring some technological paradigm shift, they are forever beyond our reach. What's more, there are 100,000,000,000 of them in our Galaxy alone - and there are literally trillions of other galaxies out there in the Universe, with more being discovered all the time. And all of this is to give us something beautiful to look at at night?

We can indeed look at trees and other similar biological entities in the natural environment and remark on how pretty they are. What we fail to appreciate by so doing is the continuous battle for survival these things represent. "Nature red in tooth and claw" isn't just a poetic turn of phrase. An idyllic woodland scene straight off a Hallmark birthday card is Nature's equivalent of the trenches of the Somme.

My whole point is that none of these things exist simply for our aesthetic sensibilities. If the natural world suggests a god to you because you think they do, that it's all for our purposes, you're missing the bigger picture. It's like playing a piano with eighty-seven missing keys. To quote a famous philosopher, "That is why you fail."

Stimbo- Good day to you sir, To answer your question, I do indeed see the physics in all of it. Just because im a believer in god does not mean i dont believe in science. I think God is the O.G. scientist and science is his vehicle for bringing it all to existance. Also i dont believe that all this is here soley for our enjoyment. You have a great way of looking at things, how you described an idyllic woodland scene...so true.

It suggests that there is a god to me simply because of all the complexity of it. For all of it to just simply happen because it did is impossible for me to accept. Thanks for your reply brother.

---

i realize trying to convert anybody who isnt ready is like telling a heroin addict he must get clean.

How arrogant.

So im not going to waste my time.

Don't forget to shut the door on your way out.

Ace- thanks for the reply homie- to answer your question... if the idea of god were removed no i still could not kill anybody for no reason. Home invasion or self defense.. no problem. God or no god out there.

See, you even admit yourself that there is no need for god, for a person to be moral, empathetic to others.

Norfolk and chance, I think some people automaticlly look for arrogance in christians. No arrogance here my friend. You misunderstand. Some heroin addicts are never ready. Some non believers will never be ready to believe. I guess I should have been more specific. I forgot where i was for a second. Speaking of arrogance though... Im not saying you, because I dont know you but some of my atheist friends that I do have that believe neither in god or any kind of creating force beleive THEMSELVES to be of the highest life forms in the universe. How is that not arrogant?

And you need to read more carefully as well. What I said was im not going to waste my time trying to convert anybody here because, as simply as i can possibly put it... people that dont want to convert will not convert. Nowhere have i said im wasting my time being here on this forum. Im here to get things from another perspective. And I am.

You say I admit that there is no need for a god simply because I stated if the IDEA of god were removed that I still would show respect for others. I admit no such thing. Here is where im asking for it but I do not care. I believe if god wanted us to be on our own and completely abandoned his creation it would literally be..hell. Hell is the absence of god. thanks for your comments. peace

[Ace Otana]

Ace- thanks for the reply homie- to answer your question... if the idea of god were removed no i still could not kill anybody for no reason. Home invasion or self defense.. no problem. God or no god out there.

Yeah I agree. Self defence or home invasion would be the only time I'd result to extreme measures. Since you would act morally regardless of belief in god or not or to some higher authority, it shows that you have a sense of right and wrong internally. You don't need some outside source like religion to guide you morally, you can do so independently. That is a rational being.

[Epimethean]

"I think some people automaticlly look for arrogance in christians.""

Observation shows that this is often the case: e.g., your inverted comment on heroin addicts. Keep that in mind when you discuss arrogance hereabouts. Many of us see YOU as an addict. Smarmy comments about not being arrogant immediately on the heels of demonstrating arrogance rub many folk raw.

[Cyberman]

---

I accept that you see the beauty in mountains, trees, rivers, stars etc. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The real question is do you see the physics in all those things? For example, stars are not simply dots of light forming pretty patterns in the sky. They are mindbogglingly immense nuclear fusion reactors held together by their own gravity; with the obvious exception of our own familiar Sun, exactly 100% of them are so far away from our world that, barring some technological paradigm shift, they are forever beyond our reach. What's more, there are 100,000,000,000 of them in our Galaxy alone - and there are literally trillions of other galaxies out there in the Universe, with more being discovered all the time. And all of this is to give us something beautiful to look at at night?

We can indeed look at trees and other similar biological entities in the natural environment and remark on how pretty they are. What we fail to appreciate by so doing is the continuous battle for survival these things represent. "Nature red in tooth and claw" isn't just a poetic turn of phrase. An idyllic woodland scene straight off a Hallmark birthday card is Nature's equivalent of the trenches of the Somme.

My whole point is that none of these things exist simply for our aesthetic sensibilities. If the natural world suggests a god to you because you think they do, that it's all for our purposes, you're missing the bigger picture. It's like playing a piano with eighty-seven missing keys. To quote a famous philosopher, "That is why you fail."

---

Stimbo- Good day to you sir, To answer your question, I do indeed see the physics in all of it. Just because im a believer in god does not mean i dont believe in science. I think God is the O.G. scientist and science is his vehicle for bringing it all to existance. Also i dont believe that all this is here soley for our enjoyment. You have a great way of looking at things, how you described an idyllic woodland scene...so true.

It suggests that there is a god to me simply because of all the complexity of it. For all of it to just simply happen because it did is impossible for me to accept. Thanks for your reply brother.

Point of clarification before I begin: science is not a 'thing' that one can believe in. Science is a process, a method of investigation that adds to the body of human knowledge. If a scientist states that complex organism developed from earlier, simpler ones, that is not the end of the process. Rather, it is only the first step of a very long and often painful journey.

Anyway, now that's out of the way: Let's assume for the moment that a god is necessary for things to exist. I'm not going to limit the thought experiment simply to "God" because even if god/s exist and are active in the Universe, or even if they're not, that particularly identity is another level of detail that you have to establish. In other words, why God and not, say, Zeus, Ra, or Tengri, the creator god of the Göktürks (look it up)? For the moment we're going to posit a bog-standard creator god. A celestial scientist, if you like. This god created all things. The question now becomes: how? By what methods? If you watched PotHoler54's video I gave you earlier, you will have seen a method (if not actually 'the' method) by which achingly primitive biochemistry formed from the primordial landscape. These early chemical compounds polymerised into more complex compounds, which they can be observed to do when left to their own devices. Natural selection soon gets to work and like a sculptor, chips away everything that doesn't deserve to be there by virtue of suitability to the environment. The rest is history (well, chemistry and eventually biology, but you get the idea I hope).

So to reiterate PotHoler's question from that video, if a god did step in, at what point? And why, if the process can do the job all by itself, which we know from observation is what does happen?

To sum up: Try to disavow yourself of the idea that things sans a god had to happen by themselves because they did and thus is unbelievable. Instead, consider that things happened because they can.

[Cinjin]

I thank all of you that answered my question seriously. Im not trying to prove any points here. Just wanted to see what people thought about it. Why does anything have to be a fight with some of you. How many times to I have to say it. I DONT GIVE A CRAP IF ANY OF YOU BELIEVE IN MY GOD!!! Of course I would like to think that one day you all will find him, i realize trying to convert anybody who isnt ready is like telling a heroin addict he must get clean. So im not going to waste my time. Im just trying to see exactlly how people from the other side view things. Nothing more.

Had a long day at work im going to reply to as many of you as possible that commented. If i dont get to you im just tired. I still love ya.

cinjin- I didnt say i was a serial killer.

I believe the title of this thread you wrote is, Shit man, I'm a natural born killer.
Yes, we realize you were trying to make a point and that you are not REALLY a serial killer. Don't be so obtuse.

And to be honest, with your writing style good sir, I cant tell if you are trying to just answer the question or your just prick sauce.

allow me to clarify my position good sir. I am both answering your question and a bit of "prick sauce" (strange expression). I can be the best friend a man has ever had and I can also be a vicious irreverent hostile son of a bitch. Consider it like this: You like to holy-up and play Christian, but you still like to use words like shit, damn, and prick sauce. You like playing both sides of the line. You like to pick and choose the parts of Christianity you like and disregard the parts you don't. Like you, I am a coin of two sides. When you present something worthy of my respect, you shall get it. Until that day, I will continue to show you just how much I despise your religion and the contempt I have for tired threads from people who pretend that they have no agenda.

I guess ill just say thank you and move on.

You're welcome.