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(April 29, 2012 at 12:29 am)Godschild Wrote: You need some reality in your life. Go check this forum and see who blames who for violence.
That is because in reality, 1. many people actually blame lack of religion and by extension atheists for most of the world's crime and violence, and 2. in actuality religion is responsible for much of the world's violence.
You're a damn christian dude!
Thank you, I realize much more than you can imagine, I do not let others cloud my views.
You don't let others cloud your views or are you so myopic that you can't listen to anyone's argument that differs from your own? Take a look at the world around you and it's history for a second. The Christian Church has done as much harm as it's done good, to say the least. An entire millennium of progress slowed in Europe and the enslavement and subjugation of many native peoples of Asia, Africa, Europe and The Americas were committed by professed Christians. Furthermore, if your god is omnipotent, why can't he address the problem of evil? If he's all powerful why not just will a Hitler, Stalin or a Mussolini out of existence? Could have saved his "beloved creation" a lot of trouble in doing so!
May 2, 2012 at 12:17 am (This post was last modified: May 2, 2012 at 12:18 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Hitler was doing gods work, handling the jews. Mussolini was a similar tool (Eat it you Roman piece of shit!). Revege is a dish best served cold after all. Stalin, that was a stretch. Bored, Tuesday afternoon, he's god, cmon cut him some slack.
(Maybe he'd heard there were some jews there...?)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(May 2, 2012 at 12:17 am)Rhythm Wrote: Hitler was doing gods work, handling the jews. Mussolini was a similar tool (Eat it you Roman piece of shit!). Revege is a dish best served cold after all. Stalin, that was a stretch. Bored, Tuesday afternoon, he's god, cmon cut him some slack.
(Maybe he'd heard there were some jews there...?)
With great shame, I confess I lul'd. I never understood why large segments Christians never seemed to get along with Jews, considering almost all of Christian tradition comes from Judaism. Oh well, fuck logic!
"We just push boundaries, we can't help it if people don't like those boundaries being pushed." - Rammstein lead singer Till Lindemann
(May 2, 2012 at 12:13 am)Engel Wrote: You don't let others cloud your views or are you so myopic that you can't listen to anyone's argument that differs from your own? Take a look at the world around you and it's history for a second. The Christian Church has done as much harm as it's done good, to say the least. An entire millennium of progress slowed in Europe and the enslavement and subjugation of many native peoples of Asia, Africa, Europe and The Americas were committed by professed Christians. Furthermore, if your god is omnipotent, why can't he address the problem of evil? If he's all powerful why not just will a Hitler, Stalin or a Mussolini out of existence? Could have saved his "beloved creation" a lot of trouble in doing so!
I did not say that, sorry should have said more, more. What I meant was that I do not take things as the truth unless proof is given or I look into it myself. If you want to debate secular vs christian atrocities go to it, one thing you will have to prove since your making the claim, that the atrocities were ordained by a christian, that is to say the Biblical definition of a christian.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(May 2, 2012 at 1:15 am)Godschild Wrote: I did not say that, sorry should have said more, more. What I meant was that I do not take things as the truth unless proof is given or I look into it myself. If you want to debate secular vs christian atrocities go to it, one thing you will have to prove since your making the claim, that the atrocities were ordained by a christian, that is to say the Biblical definition of a christian.
I am fairly certain that the Spanish Inquisition, the Pogroms against Jews in the Russian Empire, the Holocaust, Segregation and slavery in the United States, South Africa, and many others, as well as the fascist governments of Francisco Franco, Mussolini, and yes, even Adolf Hitler, were organized by men who claimed church membership and claimed god and religion, that is to say the Christian god, as one of their motives. This is in addition to the Crusades and the persecution of intellectuals and other threats to the Church in Europe for the better part of 1000 years. Doesn't matter if they were "biblical" or not. They claimed Christianity as their faith and motives.
"We just push boundaries, we can't help it if people don't like those boundaries being pushed." - Rammstein lead singer Till Lindemann
(May 2, 2012 at 1:15 am)Godschild Wrote: I did not say that, sorry should have said more, more. What I meant was that I do not take things as the truth unless proof is given or I look into it myself. If you want to debate secular vs christian atrocities go to it, one thing you will have to prove since your making the claim, that the atrocities were ordained by a christian, that is to say the Biblical definition of a christian.
I am fairly certain that the Spanish Inquisition, the Pogroms against Jews in the Russian Empire, the Holocaust, Segregation and slavery in the United States, South Africa, and many others, as well as the fascist governments of Francisco Franco, Mussolini, and yes, even Adolf Hitler, were organized by men who claimed church membership and claimed god and religion, that is to say the Christian god, as one of their motives. This is in addition to the Crusades and the persecution of intellectuals and other threats to the Church in Europe for the better part of 1000 years. Doesn't matter if they were "biblical" or not. They claimed Christianity as their faith and motives.
If you're going to blame Christianity then you have to prove these people were biblical Christians. Just a side note here, slavery was in effect long before Christianity. Many Christians are being killed today for spreading the Gospel of Christ. Franco, Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin were not Christians, by the Biblical definition. Christians, Atheist and many others were involved in slavery and the slave trade. Does matter and here's why, I could go around killing many many people and say when I was caught, that I did it because I'm an atheist, and believe my moral standard is as good as anyone else's standard, now is that fair for me to justify why I killed all those people, by claiming to be an atheist. I would think not. Prove then that all these people you believe to be christian are, by the Biblical standard.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
May 2, 2012 at 6:26 am (This post was last modified: May 2, 2012 at 6:27 am by Jaysyn.)
(May 2, 2012 at 3:30 am)Godschild Wrote:
(May 2, 2012 at 1:28 am)Engel Wrote:
(May 2, 2012 at 1:15 am)Godschild Wrote: I did not say that, sorry should have said more, more. What I meant was that I do not take things as the truth unless proof is given or I look into it myself. If you want to debate secular vs christian atrocities go to it, one thing you will have to prove since your making the claim, that the atrocities were ordained by a christian, that is to say the Biblical definition of a christian.
I am fairly certain that the Spanish Inquisition, the Pogroms against Jews in the Russian Empire, the Holocaust, Segregation and slavery in the United States, South Africa, and many others, as well as the fascist governments of Francisco Franco, Mussolini, and yes, even Adolf Hitler, were organized by men who claimed church membership and claimed god and religion, that is to say the Christian god, as one of their motives. This is in addition to the Crusades and the persecution of intellectuals and other threats to the Church in Europe for the better part of 1000 years. Doesn't matter if they were "biblical" or not. They claimed Christianity as their faith and motives.
If you're going to blame Christianity then you have to prove these people were biblical Christians. Just a side note here, slavery was in effect long before Christianity. Many Christians are being killed today for spreading the Gospel of Christ. Franco, Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin were not Christians, by the Biblical definition. Christians, Atheist and many others were involved in slavery and the slave trade. Does matter and here's why, I could go around killing many many people and say when I was caught, that I did it because I'm an atheist, and believe my moral standard is as good as anyone else's standard, now is that fair for me to justify why I killed all those people, by claiming to be an atheist. I would think not. Prove then that all these people you believe to be christian are, by the Biblical standard.
Matthew 18:20 Wrote:For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
That's the Biblical definition of a Christian.
For shame. You've been here long enough to know what the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
(May 2, 2012 at 12:27 am)Engel Wrote: I never understood why large segments Christians never seemed to get along with Jews, considering almost all of Christian tradition comes from Judaism. Oh well, fuck logic!
You'd think every Christian would run out and hug every Jew they could find, that "Christ killer" would be a great honor. "Oh thank you for killing Jesus. Now I get to go to Heaven because of your people."
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
(May 2, 2012 at 3:30 am)Godschild Wrote: If you're going to blame Christianity then you have to prove these people were biblical Christians
No I don't. Furthermore, there is no such thing as an atrocity that is "secular" because there are no "seculars" to be responsible for it. That is because there is no secular organization like a church, for example.
"Sisters, you know only the north; I have traveled in the south lands. There are churches there, believe me, that cut their children too, as the people of Bolvangar did--not in the same way, but just as horribly. They cut their sexual organs, yes, both boys and girls; they cut them with knives so that they shan't feel. That is what the Church does, and every church is the same: control, destroy, obliterate every good feeling. So if a war comes, and the Church is on one side of it, we must be on the other, no matter what strange allies we find ourselves bound to."
(May 2, 2012 at 3:30 am)Godschild Wrote: If you're going to blame Christianity then you have to prove these people were biblical Christians
No I don't. Furthermore, there is no such thing as an atrocity that is "secular" because there are no "seculars" to be responsible for it. That is because there is no secular organization like a church, for example.
Whatever dude, I'm not wasting my time with someone who demands a thing from Christians yet, when it applies to an atheist you fall back on the same old junk, "no I don't".
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
