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RE: Pascal's wager
August 1, 2012 at 8:32 pm
Quote: People can change their minds, and change their beliefs.
Pascal's wager is not about legitimately changing. It is about going along with the herd.
Quote:Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (...) There is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. And so our proposition is of infinite force, when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain.
Far too many xtians accept a god who is so stupid that he does not know the difference.
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RE: Pascal's wager
August 1, 2012 at 9:14 pm
(August 1, 2012 at 8:12 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (August 1, 2012 at 6:58 pm)WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth Wrote: Pascal formulated the wager within a Christian framework.
I completely understand the wager was formulated within a Christian framework, which is the main reason why it fails. It ignores other gods.
Quote:1."God is, or He is not"
2.A Game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up.
3.According to reason, you can defend either of the propositions.
4.You must wager. (It's not optional.)
5.Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.
6.Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (...) There is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. And so our proposition is of infinite force, when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain.
Yes, these steps are a perfect explanation on why PW fails. It is a false dichotomy.
The existence of the Christian God is not 50/50, so it is not a the same as a coin toss. The coin has an infinite number of sides.
Two sides, one christianity, one no god. Thats my point. He wasn't concerned with other religions.
Atheism is a non-prophet organisation. - A dusty old book that I found that must be completely true because someone wrote it down.
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RE: Pascal's wager
August 1, 2012 at 11:26 pm
(August 1, 2012 at 9:14 pm)WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth Wrote: Two sides, one christianity, one no god. Thats my point. He wasn't concerned with other religions.
And that is why the wager fails.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Pascal's wager
August 2, 2012 at 2:10 am
Quote:And that is why the wager fails.
I think it fails regardless of what Gods are invoked,unless perhaps it was perhaps one of the more stupid ancient gods. The concept of Pascal's wager is innately dishonest.
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RE: Pascal's wager
August 2, 2012 at 9:08 am
Epimethean Wrote:Serial killers and those who are psychotically predisposed to kill seem to me incapable of accurately assessing reality to the degree necessary for cognizance of evil as a state of being.
Actually, I think most serial killers are quite aware of the nature of their actions, but they just don't give a shit.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Pascal's wager
August 2, 2012 at 9:12 am
(This post was last modified: August 2, 2012 at 9:12 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 2, 2012 at 2:10 am)padraic Wrote: I think it fails regardless of what Gods are invoked,unless perhaps it was perhaps one of the more stupid ancient gods. The concept of Pascal's wager is innately dishonest.
Hey now, some of those gods just weren't mind readers. They hadn't reached the omni-everything double down point yet. The god of biscuits seemed perfectly fine at the time..lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Pascal's wager
August 9, 2012 at 7:13 pm
(August 1, 2012 at 11:26 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (August 1, 2012 at 9:14 pm)WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth Wrote: Two sides, one christianity, one no god. Thats my point. He wasn't concerned with other religions.
And that is why the wager fails.
I wonder if a somewhat weakened Wager might succeed, though.
Suppose that the conclusion is not, "Therefore, you have good reason to be a Christian", but rather "Therefore, you have good reason not to be an atheist".
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
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RE: Pascal's wager
August 10, 2012 at 3:04 am
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2012 at 3:04 am by Whateverist.)
(August 9, 2012 at 7:13 pm)CliveStaples Wrote: (August 1, 2012 at 11:26 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: And that is why the wager fails.
I wonder if a somewhat weakened Wager might succeed, though.
Suppose that the conclusion is not, "Therefore, you have good reason to be a Christian", but rather "Therefore, you have good reason not to be an atheist".
Nah. Dead is dead. We both will be, permanently. After life is only death.
(August 9, 2012 at 7:13 pm)CliveStaples Wrote: (August 1, 2012 at 11:26 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: And that is why the wager fails.
I wonder if a somewhat weakened Wager might succeed, though.
Suppose that the conclusion is not, "Therefore, you have good reason to be a Christian", but rather "Therefore, you have good reason not to be an atheist".
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