Untruths?

[fr0d0]

Well that's what a metaphor is. If you have faith in yourself you can achieve a hell of a lot. It can be very positive. It's not difficult to see the point here.

Jebus is saying that it's good to have more faith. With more faith more is possible. He's doin an Oprah here!!!

[Edwardo Piet]

@ Saerules: Jesus said that with faith you can move mountains, right? (I didn't mean he was saying you could just move a mountain regardless) And fr0d0 then seemed to imply that the reason they couldn't move mountains was because their faith was weak. But how is this so? Whether the mountain is a literal mountain or a metaphorical one - a very difficult problem - how does being unable to 'move a mountain' mean you have weak faith? Because you could have strong faith but still not fucking be able to move this mountain! (irrespective of if it's metaphorical or not).

Sorry if I've missed something in your post

Jebus is saying that it's good to have more faith. With more faith more is possible. He's doin an Oprah here!!!

It's a mere assertion on his part. If the difficulty of the problem, as a metaphor, is analogous to the difficulty of moving a mountain (i.e.: basically impossible) I see it as a baseless assertion. And until substantiated - quite ridiculous. In my experience the whole 'positive thinking' is a pile of BS. Thinking does fuck-all without belief, it just leads to wishless thinking. And with belief, it does no good if the belief isn't true - at best it's just a placebo unless it's actually true.

In all my experience of reading dozens of self-help books. Fuck positive thinking in and of itself. Practical Constructive thinking FTW I say.

I think so-called "postive thinking" is self-perpetuating superficial nonsense, dressed up as something "positive" simply by "thinking positive" - regardless of the truth of such thoughts. Because, what appear to be positive thoughts on the outside can actually be a sham you know

EvF

[Violet]

But it is also not good to be certain of your convictions... that is arrogance.

---

Jesus said that with faith you can move mountains, right? (I didn't mean he was saying you could just move a mountain regardless) And fr0d0 then seemed to imply that the reason they couldn't move mountains was because their faith was weak. But how is this so? Whether the mountain is a literal mountain or a metaphorical one - a very difficult problem - how does being unable to 'move a mountain' mean you have weak faith? Because you could have strong faith but still not fucking be able to move this mountain! (irrespective of if it's metaphorical or not).

Sorry if I've missed something in your post

EvF

That is true. The theist would see it otherwise though There is no logical way to explain this. It is just another little contradiction

[fr0d0]

Positive thinking Evie doesn't have to be just unsubstantiated and wishful thinking. It can be seeing yourself as you really are and being confident and happy with that rather than self deprecating and to not fulfil your potential.

Jesus is pointing out the fact that perfection isn't what we'reachieving here, but way below.

Like Neo in The Matrix - the potential is there for you to see what is really going on. Most ppl who broke out of their parasitic tanks could do so much, but they had faith something more was possible, and Neo was the embodiment of that.

[Edwardo Piet]

My point is that "positive thinking" is redundant unless the "thinking" is actually believed, unless it's - positive belief. And then that belief is only positive if it's either a true belief, or a somehow worthwhile placebo. If it's 'thinking positive' just for the sake of being "positive" then that's just superficial gratuitous nonsense.

I say fuck "positive thinking", it's only truly positive if it's constructive in some way, not just positive for the sake of it, thinking "positive thoughts" etc, it's idealistic nonsense often...in practice, in my experience from the dozens of self-help books I've read, videos I've seen, and crap I've heard about it in general everywhere.

Like the whole self-affirmation bollocks that leads to no where in and of itself. I prefer to mediate on thoughts, rather than mindlessly affirm positive thoughts. If it's constructive it's good whether it's "positive" or "negative" IMO, because whatever is considered "negative" can be positive in the long run because of the constructive thought processes you may go through when thinking that way.

I don't see how Jesus is pointing that out at all. From me it just seems like "With faith you can move mountains...but we can't move mountains...so you see, our faith is weak!" - it could just be that we can't fucking move mountains! Whether that's a literal mountain or a metaphorical one, a problem analogous to the difficulty of moving a real mountain, that is also therefore so difficult you might as well say it's impossible. Where does faith come into this? How does that make any difference? We just can't move mountains! What's that got to do with it somehow being 'because our faith is weak'?

EvF

[Violet]

If Jesus meant to say it that way, then he should have said it that way He sounds like a passive-aggressive... ^_^

[Edwardo Piet]

His lack of clear clarity in expression, for a messiah, I find quite amusing.

EvF

[fr0d0]

I think you have ""baggage"" Evie. Jesus is just pointing out the weakness of our faith. An illustration of our position. You seem to embody it.. you are the one so down on faith you vehemently oppose it. In the Matrix you'd be Agent Smith. You work for the machine!!! *extra dramatic effect*

In fact - stand him in profile and apply black and white filter....

>>>

[Edwardo Piet]

He doesn't point out that our faith is weak by demonstrating that we can't move mountains. He says we need faith for that, he hasn't shown that.

The fact we can't move mountains doesn't demonstrate that our faith is weak. Because he is yet to demonstrate that strong faith can move mountains. Because if we could move mountains, who says we'd even need the faith? We can't move mountains. So what is his point?

Either moving mountains is an impossibility or it is some kind of vague metaphor for a difficult task. 1. Difficult tasks us humans can do, 2. literal mountains however we can't move. We can do '1' so who says we need faith anyway, we can't do '2', and in that case - how does he know faith would make any difference anyway? And if we have faith that we can do '2' and it doesn't work (obviously, it's a mountain), how does he know that it's got anything to do with a 'faith deficit'?

EvF

[fr0d0]

He has the ability to move mountains. He wakes up dead ppl and walks on water n stuff. He is the chosen one like Neo. He's perfection and we aspire to that aim. He's perfectly in tune with the creator and we only scratch the surface coz of our weakness in believing on faith.