Is everybody equal in atheism?

[Cyberman]

(Note that out of good form I'm responding to Nap's quotation rather than directly to the original post).

I wasn't the one who hijacked my own thread in order to go out of my way to deliver a deeply personal attack on someone with whom the only contact I'd had prior to then had been mainly neutral or mildy supportive in tone, and most certainly no worse than the consideration shown to others.

If I'd been asking for it then it would still have been a low blow, a cunt's trick if the rest of you will pardon the phrase, but at least it could be argued to have been warranted.

[Napoléon]

everybody here hated my guys from the day I first joined.

Well you didn't exactly start off by endearing yourself to anyone did you.

I mean what the hell was the whole stereotypical Italian thing about.

You acted like an ass to your fair share of people, frankly it's no surprise people are weary of you.

[Angrboda]

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

It's a part of my existence on these here forums. The lack of empathy, sensitivity and caring that characterizes conduct around these parts, you don't think twice before stepping on peoples' toes. I mean look at how people have been shitting on others here.

Stop making it out to be bigger than it is. We're all stepping on each others toes.

Maybe I went too far. I'll take it back, you sulk for a few days and then we'll get back to status quo.

Come on. I made a mistake. I'm sorry.

---

everybody here hated my guys from the day I first joined.

Well you didn't exactly start off by endearing yourself to anyone did you.

I mean what the hell was the whole stereotypical Italian thing about.

You acted like an ass to your fair share of people, frankly it's no surprise people are weary of you.

It's who I am in real life too, alright? The color of my skin makes people think I'm Italian. I live in a very Italian area. We joke around, watch a bunch of movies, go visit Little Italy half a dozen times and pretty soon that's my schtick among my friends in real life, alright?

Stop making it out to be such a big thing.

[Cyberman]

@ apo: This is such a spooky coincidence (or perhaps a "Khaaaaaaaaaaancidence") but I was about to throw in this little observation left on my Facebook wall be a certain oriental Enterprise Chief Helmsman which I thought for some reason would fit in rather well at this point:

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

everybody here hated my guys from the day I first joined.

Well you didn't exactly start off by endearing yourself to anyone did you.

I mean what the hell was the whole stereotypical Italian thing about.

You acted like an ass to your fair share of people, frankly it's no surprise people are weary of you.

Alright. You really wanna know?

YOU REALLY WANNA KNOW??????

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/757622/

THERE! NOW YOU KNOW!!!

[Cinjin]

It's a part of my existence on these here forums. The lack of empathy, sensitivity and caring that characterizes conduct around these parts, you don't think twice before stepping on peoples' toes. I mean look at how people have been shitting on others here.

Stop making it out to be bigger than it is. We're all stepping on each others toes.

Maybe I went too far. I'll take it back, you sulk for a few days and then we'll get back to status quo.

Come on. I made a mistake. I'm sorry.

Alright everybody, an apology was issued lets try and move on shall we ...

[Cyberman]

Fair enough, and it's never suited me to play the martyr, but let's just clarify something here. "Vinny" let me know that he'd paid my poor little blog a visit by way of the none-too-subtle clue of quoting from my tagline "Fighting the religion virus, one rant at a time". There was only one place from which he could have got that phrase, unless someone else had also thought of it and put it on a t-shirt or something; however in the context of this thread it was a clear message that he'd checked out my blog. No big deal, it's what it's there for and I've been hoping to generate some traffic anyway as all bloggers do.

However, on the About Me page, which I christened the 'Mission' Statement, after a long dissertation about why I chose the name, there is an addended paragraph intended to explain my choice of colour scheme both there and on my Youtube channel of the same name. My logo for both places is a photo of Buzz Aldrin on the lunar surface, but Photoshopped to give him a bright green suit. As I explain in the paragraph:

(Design note: I originally added the green tint to Buzz Aldrin’s photo for my YouTube channel around November 2009, when it was used to show support for an anti-torture campaign. Since the sudden and devastating loss of my beloved fiancée six months later, I chose to adopt it as the principal colour scheme for this blog in her memory: green was her favourite colour.)

Unless he'd been reading back through nearly three thousand posts, this was the only place he could have got the information about my fiancée. If he'd been genuinely interested and concerned he could have PMed me, as so many of you have done already, instead of playing the EternallyAlive card. (Min will know what I mean by this and can verify. Back on the Connecticut Valley Atheists there used to be a fundy known as EternallyAlive who, when things got heated in a particular discussion, lashed out at one member who'd had an abortion something along the lines of "So, do you still think of those kids you had killed?") Plus his choice of wording went beyond an honest query. It even went beyond Father Ted 's Father Dougal making such conversation as "So I hear your babysitter got pregnant?" or saying to a radical feminist singer (after Ted had mentioned how it's nice to have a female touch about the place) "Ted tells me you've been touching him!" No, this had knives, and the knives had guns. This was intended to wound.

I do accept that an apology has been issued, apart from the snark about sulking. I still reserve the right keep him on ignore. I repeat I have no desire to play the martyr nor drag the drama out to EastEnders proportions, but this went way deeper than just, say, calling me a cunt or something. I would like some acknowledgement of this, in a PM if it will help.

---

Edited to correct punctuation-related issues.

[idunno]

Vinny, do you still want to pretend to be an atheist? OK, I believe you. Since you are an atheist, you should lead me an altar boy in blasphemy.....

You know, you're the last person on this forum who should be carrying this banner because it's equally likely that you're an atheist pretending to be a theist.

Now I admit that this person's presentation has rubbed me the wrong way, but we're not assessing the person here — that would be a form of ad hominem. The only thing you should be assessing is the merit of his arguments and what he has to say. Is he annoying? You betcha. But he does raise some interesting questions, even if his formulations of them or his position on them is not always strongly defensible.

I think only festive1 and Tempus and genkaus have really addressed the core question, and all this "definition of atheism" crap is just a side effect of a defect in the way Vinny posed the question.


I think ultimately the question has to do with religious evil, and the attitude of atheists toward that. It would seem that, historically, religion and people doing bad things have more than passing familiarity. Is religion causing people to do bad things, or is it simply bad people whose religion enables them? And even if religion does cause people to do bad things, what is the answer? Do we seek to have religion completely extinguished, or just seek to extinguish the mistreatment of people and those aspects of religion which enable it? And does religion itself harm or cost those who are infected with it? (Is it a public health issue, like stamping out polio? Or mental illness?) And there are several overlapping questions here. Even if religion is evil, and ideally should be abolished, attempting to do so may do more harm than good. This comes up in relation to Dawkins' comments about parents teaching their children their religious beliefs and child abuse. And when is the harm of religion unjustifiable, and when is it justifiable. (Smoking has enormous societal costs, but we generally don't seek to outlaw it.) And what if you don't feel religion is inherently evil, and suggest a laissez faire position vis a vis religion, how do you defend that against those who see religion as evil incarnate that must be destroyed?


Perhaps Vinny is a theist. I don't really care. He could be the pope for all that it matters. Address the question and the argument, not the man.

The first paragraph of your response express my sentiments exactly. I've wondered if he's a poe myself, but seeing that he's the darling of the hour I felt it wasn't my place to point this out (being new here myself). In my short experience here as a Christian (in its "traditional" sense), Stimbo has come across as one who is least deserving of personal attack. He understands and surpasses the concept of disagreeing without being disagreeable. Vinny has apologized in a round about way, but I understand that doesn't ease any pain that may have been inflicted.

Cheers Stimbo

[Red Celt]

Mother Theresa was a fuckin' nun but she did tremendous good works with her life.

Name the good things, please.