Prayer not working

[Cyberman]

I can tell you for a fact that Darkstar is no cynic. I know because I'm one, and he's never at the meetings. Or if you want something less flip, all I saw in his post was thoughtful analysis of information provided. Perhaps you ought to invest in a better dictionary?

[Minimalist]

Darkstar, the deeper you get into this conversation the more foolish you are making yourself look.

Um, G-C. He is not the one who thinks that talking to himself does some good.

You really shouldn't speculate on how foolish others look until you deal with your own delusions.

[Godscreated]

I can tell you for a fact that Darkstar is no cynic. I know because I'm one, and he's never at the meetings. Or if you want something less flip, all I saw in his post was thoughtful analysis of information provided. Perhaps you ought to invest in a better dictionary?

Funny

[Brakeman]

First thing you assume you know God's perfect plan and how He works it, and you do not.

"How could god change his previously perfect plans due to prayer"

Does not presuppose knowledge of his plans. Do you have a reading disability or a comprehension disability? Again you avoid answering the actual question but instead try to dance around it in a rather dishonest way.

God speaks to use through the Spirit, since you do not know how that works the Spirit does not reside in you. You must be quite dull minded to believe Christians think the Holy Spirit reside in the kidneys, mind or heart.
The Holy Spirit is a being which can move into our being and aid us in our daily lives.
Playing apparently is all you know, typically childish.

No, childish is your dimwitted perception that I was referring to my beliefs about where the soul resides. I haven't believed in such silly nonsense as a soul since I was a child. The pithed brains that thought the kidneys were the home of the soul were the early christians and bible writers. If you were as well read about the scriptures as you claim and knew anything other than modern interpretations you would know that.

Nephros (Greek) does mean kidney, but is used metaphorically to mean the inmost mind (self).
Kilyah (Hebrew) also means kidney, but is used metaphorically to mean the mind, innermost self.

How would that start to become understood metaphorically? What quality of the kidneys were chosen to embody the meaning that the writer wanted to communicate? When an author chooses to use a metaphor there is a quality that one intends to communicate. For example, the metaphor "the "rock" of ages", makes sense since the rock is hard, strong, and unmoving, which is what the writers wanted to convey with that sentence. "The sock of ages" makes no sense as there is no quality of a sock that a writer would be intending to portray. So what about a kidney was the writer or jesus trying to convey to the bible audience?

For acts 19, the baptism the people were baptized into was John's baptism, Paul baptized them into Christ the Lord Jesus, because only Jesus can save.

Really? John didn't know about jesus when he baptized them? John didn't inspire "john 3:16?"
Explain this in detail please.. I don't know the scriptures' meaning her as well as you.

Now a question for you, tell me why is it that when one loses a loved one, a wife,husband, girlfriend ect. do you not get a head ache, instead you ache (feel the hurt) in one's chest. Why is it that when one is sad they feel the sadness in their chest, by your statement one should get a terrible head ache.

Because the brain sends off an avalanche of hormones that causes your heart to race and you can feel the surge of pumping in your chest. Nothing more.


If you want to drop the smirks and derogatory language I would be happy to do so in kind.

[Tnmusicman]

Hands up, anyone who thinks we would have been able to know this if we hadn't been told in advance.

Just to clarify: if this prayer group does their thing, in a Universe in which prayer works as advertised, then surely its effects will be recognisable even though the prayee is ignorant of the prayers. It's a bit like the ignore function here in that regard; were I to add you to my list, the only way you can know about it is if I decide to publish the fact.

---

Matthew 6:5-8

Prayer

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him

---

They used this passage a lot (almost every time, it seems) during the masses at my old church.

Right and I agree you shouldn't stand on street corners praying out loud in a very loud tone of voice. Rather,we go into a room,shut the door and pray. Not a long prayer. Just a simple prayer.

[Godscreated]

First thing you assume you know God's perfect plan and how He works it, and you do not.

"How could god change his previously perfect plans due to prayer"
Does not presuppose knowledge of his plans. Do you have a reading disability or a comprehension disability? Again you avoid answering the actual question but instead try to dance around it in a rather dishonest way.

I danced around nothing, you asked a question that presumes you know His plan, now since you have shared you do not know God's plan my statement "you do not" rings true.

God speaks to use through the Spirit, since you do not know how that works the Spirit does not reside in you. You must be quite dull minded to believe Christians think the Holy Spirit reside in the kidneys, mind or heart.
The Holy Spirit is a being which can move into our being and aid us in our daily lives.
Playing apparently is all you know, typically childish.

No, childish is your dimwitted perception that I was referring to my beliefs about where the soul resides. I haven't believed in such silly nonsense as a soul since I was a child. The pithed brains that thought the kidneys were the home of the soul were the early christians and bible writers. If you were as well read about the scriptures as you claim and knew anything other than modern interpretations you would know that.

I did not say you believed the Holy Spirit resides in the kidneys, by the way the soul and Holy Spirit are two different things. What I did say is, Christians do not believe the Holy Spirit resides in the kidneys or any other body part. The early Christians did not believe the Holy Spirit resided in the kidneys, by that time the kidneys were known to produce urine and the urine moved to the bladder, so a body part that had a known function would then not be used as a place of moral compass. There is only one place in the entire NT which says kidneys, I can not explain why the writer use kidneys, I'll have to research the reasoning. By the way reins is a transliterated word to soften the word kidneys in the KJV, by then everyone knew the kidneys function and would have found that word a bit distasteful. In most modern translations the word mind is used in place of kidneys and reins, why because we have a better understanding of the body, the word brain was never used in scriptures, it was believed to be useless. I could go on about this but I think you see what I'm saying, don't you.

Nephros (Greek) does mean kidney, but is used metaphorically to mean the inmost mind (self).
Kilyah (Hebrew) also means kidney, but is used metaphorically to mean the mind, innermost self.

How would that start to become understood metaphorically? What quality of the kidneys were chosen to embody the meaning that the writer wanted to communicate? When an author chooses to use a metaphor there is a quality that one intends to communicate. For example, the metaphor "the "rock" of ages", makes sense since the rock is hard, strong, and unmoving, which is what the writers wanted to convey with that sentence. "The sock of ages" makes no sense as there is no quality of a sock that a writer would be intending to portray. So what about a kidney was the writer or jesus trying to convey to the bible audience?

In OT times the writers like everyone else believed the kidneys had no function, they did not even know what the hearts function was, they actually believed they had spiritual significance. The reasoning behind this, because they were hidden deep within the body by much protective membrane, fat, bone and other tissue, in other words the inmost part. They believed them to be special, this is why they were used in sacrificial ceremonies. So what was being conveyed, God can search the innermost depths of man, what we now know as the mind.

For acts 19, the baptism the people were baptized into was John's baptism, Paul baptized them into Christ the Lord Jesus, because only Jesus can save.

Really? John didn't know about jesus when he baptized them? John didn't inspire "john 3:16?"
Explain this in detail please.. I don't know the scriptures' meaning her as well as you.

I have no idea what you mean by your last sentence.
John the Baptist did not inspire John 3:16 nor did he write it if this is what you are eluding to. As far as when John the Baptist knew about Jesus, scripture says John knew about Jesus when both were in the womb. John was actually preaching about Jesus even before he met Him physically.

Now a question for you, tell me why is it that when one loses a loved one, a wife,husband, girlfriend ect. do you not get a head ache, instead you ache (feel the hurt) in one's chest. Why is it that when one is sad they feel the sadness in their chest, by your statement one should get a terrible head ache.

Because the brain sends off an avalanche of hormones that causes your heart to race and you can feel the surge of pumping in your chest. Nothing more.


If you want to drop the smirks and derogatory language I would be happy to do so in kind.

This does not even sound reasonable, when one is felling low their heart is not racing and I doubt an avalanche of hormones are flowing through the body. I've had my heart rate and blood pressure checked when I've been feeling terrible about the loss of someone, no high blood pressure nor abnormal heart rate, so it must be something more.
As for the remarks why should you feel that someone should treat you better than you treat them, when I get irritated about statements made with derogatory language toward what I believe, I tend to return the same, yes this is not how I should act, because I'm a Christian.

[IATIA]

So let me get this straight. If I pray one hundred times and one prayer comes to pass, that proves prayer works and is not a one in one hundred chance of coincidence?

[Godscreated]

So let me get this straight. If I pray one hundred times and one prayer comes to pass, that proves prayer works and is not a one in one hundred chance of coincidence?

Until you or anyone for that matter can disprove God, well, you can not prove coincidence. The all powerful God can make all things possible.

[Cyberman]

That's not what was asked, GC.

[Minimalist]

So let me get this straight. If I pray one hundred times and one prayer comes to pass, that proves prayer works and is not a one in one hundred chance of coincidence?

Until you or anyone for that matter can disprove God, well, you can not prove coincidence. The all powerful God can make all things possible.

We don't have to "disprove" anything, G-C. You claim that your boy exists.

Let's see his papers. Pious blathering proves nothing aside from your own subservience to delusion.