The logical consequences of omnipotence

[Esquilax]

Sorry is this specific version of this question has already been asked here, I did search but couldn't find it, and I want to know: Theists, is your god omnipotent and infinite? Is there something he cannot do?

If he is indeed omnipotent, why does he allow suffering?

Before you answer that last one, I should tell you that I'm aware of the standard brands of apologetics: god doesn't want to interfere in free will, suffering must exist to give contrast to pleasure, etc, and that's why god allows murders and such.

Only all of that is wrong: an omnipotent god is capable of envisioning a method by which he can intervene in the world to stop suffering without interfering with free will, and has the power to employ such a strategy. An omnipotent god can envision ways to do absolutely anything regardless of whatever justification for inaction anyone can come up with, by definition.

So, what's the answer? Is god capable yet inactive, either through disinterest or malice? Or is he limited, thereby making any religious text that claims his omnipotence to be flawed?

[killybob]

Having once been a fervent Christian believer, I can confirm that the majority of Christians at least (I'm not entirely sure about the standpoint of other mainstream belief systems), firmly believe that their God is omnipotent. And, as you've stated, there are many significant moral issues with the all powerful, all encompassing God figure.

However, I would put forward an additional issue with such a concept as omnipotence that theists must overcome - perhaps the largest (and most un-thought of) problem with this idea is the fact that all manner of paradoxes can, and do, ensue. For example, can this God create a rock too heavy for him to lift? Or can he create a prison from which he can't escape? Would he be able to invent a puzzle that he himself cannot solve? The list goes on perhaps endlessly.
This problem with the concept of omnipotence renders it useless and nonsensical. It does not conform to any logic, and exists, rather like infinity, as a mere concept and nothing else. As much one cannot count to infinity, one cannot EVER be omnipotent, not God, not anyone.

Anyway, assuming God was SO omnipotent that he could overcome these paradoxes (lol) then, as you proposed, the only reason for all this pointless suffering would either be due to his cold indifference, or pure malevolence.

[John V]

Sorry is this specific version of this question has already been asked here, I did search but couldn't find it, and I want to know: Theists, is your god omnipotent and infinite? Is there something he cannot do?

If he is indeed omnipotent, why does he allow suffering?

Before you answer that last one, I should tell you that I'm aware of the standard brands of apologetics: god doesn't want to interfere in free will, suffering must exist to give contrast to pleasure, etc, and that's why god allows murders and such.

Only all of that is wrong: an omnipotent god is capable of envisioning a method by which he can intervene in the world to stop suffering without interfering with free will, and has the power to employ such a strategy. An omnipotent god can envision ways to do absolutely anything regardless of whatever justification for inaction anyone can come up with, by definition.

So, what's the answer? Is god capable yet inactive, either through disinterest or malice? Or is he limited, thereby making any religious text that claims his omnipotence to be flawed?

As you define it, I would say that no, the God of the Bible is not omnipotent. Few English versions of the Bible claim he is. The only time I've seen it is one instance in the KJV, which was made famous by Handel. The same underlying word is translated as "almighty" elsewhere in the KJV. Once I searched nine common English versions for "omnipotent" and that one instance in the KJV is the only one I found.

Seems to me that a being which is almighty can do anything achievable by might. A being which is all powerful can do anything achievable by power. One could conceivably be all powerful yet unable to complete the TV Guide crossword puzzle, as power isn't used to solve the puzzle.

Before you reply, I should tell you I'm aware of standard atheist apologetics, which attempt to expand power to include knowledge, logic, and pretty much everything else.

[Brian37]

Sorry is this specific version of this question has already been asked here, I did search but couldn't find it, and I want to know: Theists, is your god omnipotent and infinite? Is there something he cannot do?

If he is indeed omnipotent, why does he allow suffering?

Before you answer that last one, I should tell you that I'm aware of the standard brands of apologetics: god doesn't want to interfere in free will, suffering must exist to give contrast to pleasure, etc, and that's why god allows murders and such.

Only all of that is wrong: an omnipotent god is capable of envisioning a method by which he can intervene in the world to stop suffering without interfering with free will, and has the power to employ such a strategy. An omnipotent god can envision ways to do absolutely anything regardless of whatever justification for inaction anyone can come up with, by definition.

So, what's the answer? Is god capable yet inactive, either through disinterest or malice? Or is he limited, thereby making any religious text that claims his omnipotence to be flawed?

As you define it, I would say that no, the God of the Bible is not omnipotent. Few English versions of the Bible claim he is. The only time I've seen it is one instance in the KJV, which was made famous by Handel. The same underlying word is translated as "almighty" elsewhere in the KJV. Once I searched nine common English versions for "omnipotent" and that one instance in the KJV is the only one I found.

Seems to me that a being which is almighty can do anything achievable by might. A being which is all powerful can do anything achievable by power. One could conceivably be all powerful yet unable to complete the TV Guide crossword puzzle, as power isn't used to solve the puzzle.

Before you reply, I should tell you I'm aware of standard atheist apologetics, which attempt to expand power to include knowledge, logic, and pretty much everything else.

Again, I have debated other theists here and atheists too. The new answer of "no he is not all powerful" is a dodge and a new form of watering down from what people in the past wanted to believe. They got caught on the omi claims now they are trying to dodge them.

But even this new version of "power through might" still does not work morally or even scientifically. Just like when they couldn't sell Creationism in school they re packaged it as ID.

How about this. Just give up on invisible friend claims of any kind, unlimited or limited power. This is as stupid as arguing over what Superman can or cannot do.

Once you swallow a naked assertion you can always move the pieces when others see they don't fit.

[Esquilax]

As you define it, I would say that no, the God of the Bible is not omnipotent. Few English versions of the Bible claim he is. The only time I've seen it is one instance in the KJV, which was made famous by Handel. The same underlying word is translated as "almighty" elsewhere in the KJV. Once I searched nine common English versions for "omnipotent" and that one instance in the KJV is the only one I found.

Seems to me that a being which is almighty can do anything achievable by might. A being which is all powerful can do anything achievable by power. One could conceivably be all powerful yet unable to complete the TV Guide crossword puzzle, as power isn't used to solve the puzzle.

Before you reply, I should tell you I'm aware of standard atheist apologetics, which attempt to expand power to include knowledge, logic, and pretty much everything else.

Except you dudes also try to slip omnipresence and omniscience in there, don't ya? If he doesn't have omniscience, then not only does god's ineffable plan suddenly become very effable, but god also becomes unable to know us all and judge us for our sins.

And an omniscient god who is also almighty and all powerful would be able to achieve anything and also know anything, so...

Oh, yeah: original point still stands. Because changing the definitions of a few words and selectively ignoring a few others doesn't alter the correctness of the original point.

[John V]

Except you dudes also try to slip omnipresence and omniscience in there, don't ya? If he doesn't have omniscience, then not only does god's ineffable plan suddenly become very effable, but god also becomes unable to know us all and judge us for our sins.

Actually you're trying to slip them in, aren'tcha?

And an omniscient god who is also almighty and all powerful would be able to achieve anything and also know anything, so...

An omniscient and all powerful god would be able to achive anything achievable by knowledge and/or power. That does not cover all achievements which can be speculated, such as the heavy rock and square circle type. "So..." isn't an argument by the way.

Oh, yeah: original point still stands. Because changing the definitions of a few words and selectively ignoring a few others doesn't alter the correctness of the original point.

Analyzing definitions is more productive than proclaiming correctness and adding a smilie.

[Surtr]

Actually you're trying to slip them in, aren'tcha?

Omnipresence
Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in hell [the grave], behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there Your hand shall lead me, and Your right hand shall hold me (Psalm 139:7–10).
(interestingly enough, God still apparently has a human shape)

Omniscience
But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God's deep secrets (1 Corinthians 2:10).

Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, but the night shines as the day; the darkness and the light are both alike to You (Psalm 139:12).

God would surely have known it, for he knows the secrets of every heart (Psalm 44:21).

I am calling a bird of prey from the east, and from a far country a man with his purpose. Indeed, I've spoken; I will certainly make it happen; I've planned it; and I will certainly carry it out (Isaiah 46:11).

God knows our intentions better than us!

I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve (Jeremiah 17:9-10).

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart (Hebrews 4:12).

[FallentoReason]

I think the OP needed to be expanded to account for omniscience because for a god to be able to envision a way to stop suffering without intervening in free will, it needs to know every possible combination/outcome.

[Ryantology]

Seems to me that a being which is almighty can do anything achievable by might. A being which is all powerful can do anything achievable by power. One could conceivably be all powerful yet unable to complete the TV Guide crossword puzzle, as power isn't used to solve the puzzle.

Depends on how you define 'power' and 'might'. By your definition, God may be nothing more than a stupid machine.

[John V]

As you define it, I would say that no, the God of the Bible is not omnipotent. Few English versions of the Bible claim he is. The only time I've seen it is one instance in the KJV, which was made famous by Handel. The same underlying word is translated as "almighty" elsewhere in the KJV. Once I searched nine common English versions for "omnipotent" and that one instance in the KJV is the only one I found.

Seems to me that a being which is almighty can do anything achievable by might. A being which is all powerful can do anything achievable by power. One could conceivably be all powerful yet unable to complete the TV Guide crossword puzzle, as power isn't used to solve the puzzle.

Before you reply, I should tell you I'm aware of standard atheist apologetics, which attempt to expand power to include knowledge, logic, and pretty much everything else.

Again, I have debated other theists here and atheists too.

I've been doing this 10+ years. Whoop-de-doo.

The new answer of "no he is not all powerful" is a dodge

What's with the quotes? I said he's not omnipotent as one person defined omnipotence. I argued that he is all powerful, and noted that most English Bibles use "almighty," not omnipotent.

and a new form of watering down from what people in the past wanted to believe. They got caught on the omi claims now they are trying to dodge them.

Can you support that Christians in the past wanted to believe that God could create a square circle or some such? Have you actually studied the history of the concept?

But even this new version of "power through might" still does not work morally or even scientifically.

Your proclamation is noted.

Once you swallow a naked assertion you can always move the pieces when others see they don't fit.

What assertion did I swallow naked?

Seems to me OP probably swallowed some youtube argument naked, and I'm actually trying to think it through. Go figure.