The First Amendment Is Atheistic

[Kayenneh]

Usually, from what I see, people are wanting to get away from the crazy person. Unless the crazy person happens to be rich, like Donald Trump.

Or Fox News.

[ComplexityofChaos]

Hello, C/C

Unfortunately the First Amendment also establishes freedom of religion.

Big fucking mistake by those deist douchebags who wrote the damn thing.

It was not a mistake. The reason is because one cannot use force to dictate to another what they shall believe. Arguments may be used to persuade a person, but forcing someone to not believe in a god is unjustified. If the government can dictate to people what they can say, what they can read, and think, then what room would there ever be for freedom?

The real author of the First Amendment was Spinoza, and he was not a deist.

[Cyberman]

I think what Min meant by a mistake - at least judging from the context and what I already know of his attitudes towards such belief systems - is that a freedom of religion opens the floodgates, if only potentially, for any nutball with an ego complex, a glib tongue and a taste for power. I've not heard of anyone seriously advocating forcing people into atheism, even if such things were possible, and certainly not "the government". What we do tend to get a lot of, however, is the elitist mantra of "if you're not with us, you're against us", most notably expressed by Bush Sr; all of which ignores the fact that in order to have freedom of religion in the first place, there has to be a counter-balancing freedom from religion.

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Hi by the way.

[ComplexityofChaos]

I think what Min meant by a mistake - at least judging from the context and what I already know of his attitudes towards such belief systems - is that a freedom of religion opens the floodgates, if only potentially, for any nutball with an ego complex, a glib tongue and a taste for power. I've not heard of anyone seriously advocating forcing people into atheism, even if such things were possible, and certainly not "the government". What we do tend to get a lot of, however, is the elitist mantra of "if you're not with us, you're against us", most notably expressed by Bush Sr; all of which ignores the fact that in order to have freedom of religion in the first place, there has to be a counter-balancing freedom from religion.

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Hi by the way.

I hear what you are saying, and I am not sure we have any disagreement between us. But just to be clear, the point I made was that the First Amendment's very existence means the authors rejected the idea of any single religion having a monopoly on the truth. Otherwise, blasphemy would be a concern. Not only that, any religious claim that could be used to justify persecution was also rejected by the establishment of the First Amendment. It is truly a law based on a rejection of religious certainty, and so does reflect an atheistic mindset. I think atheists should brag about this anytime a religious person states something like, "The US is a Christian nation." Freedom of speech is held "sacred" for many Americans, and if atheists can point out that this right came from a rejection of religious fundamentalism, then that is a plus for the atheist side.

And thanks for the welcome.

[rexbeccarox]

I'm not sure what freedom of speech has to do with simply lacking a belief in god(s). That's the only "atheistic mindset". Also, not to be nit-picky, I hate the phrase "atheist side". Most of us don't, I don't think, like the idea of a battle against the religious (unless they come to our territory *rawr*). Logical reasoning is often our basis, but I don't think most of us want to have wars over it, as long as our rights don't get trampled on.

[Something completely different]

There is a lot of rubbish about the USA being a Christian nation. However, I have noticed that most atheists do not realize that they have an excellent come back against those who make the claim the USA is a Christian nation. America's greatest law is the First Amendment, which allows freedom of speech. Without this law, no other freedom can exist. The mistake many people make is in failing to realize that the First Amendment does stake out a theistic position, and it is an atheistic one.

Many religions claim that blasphemy is real. Claims are made all the time that one must persecute, and even murder, those who insult one's god or prophet. For anyone holding such beliefs, compromise and tolerance is impossible. The First Amendment, rather than taking a neutral position with respect to such religious beliefs, openly proclaims that these specific beliefs are ridiculous. The First Amendment allows anyone to make any statement that they care to, no matter how insulting the statement may be, with respect to another's religion. This could only be allowed in a nation where the legal system takes the position that blasphemy does not exist. The First Amendment states that anyone who believes that people will go to eternal hell unless they persecute a blasphemer are wrong in their belief. No religious fundamentalist would have devised such a law. And this is exactly why the idea for the First Amendment originally came from an atheist, Baruch Spinoza.

I am thankful that the US was founded on atheism, not Christianity.

[ComplexityofChaos]

I'm not sure what freedom of speech has to do with simply lacking a belief in god(s). That's the only "atheistic mindset". Also, not to be nit-picky, I hate the phrase "atheist side". Most of us don't, I don't think, like the idea of a battle against the religious (unless they come to our territory *rawr*). Logical reasoning is often our basis, but I don't think most of us want to have wars over it, as long as our rights don't get trampled on.

The fact is that the First Amendment is intolerant of religious intolerance. People often overlook that aspect of the law. It makes illegal such claims as, for example, some Muslims assert that anyone who leaves Islam should be killed. This could only occur if the people who drafted the laws in the US, like the First Amendment, did not believe in any such nonsense. So, it is a rejection of religious superstitioun, i.e., atheism, that gives the First Amendment its character.