Show me your proof

[Baalzebutt]

You had no choice but to write that, and reach that conclusion at this point.

Touché.

[Godscreated]

How do you know the elephant was there when it left no trace, now you might not consider the Bible, but I do. Faith leads to belief, belief to knowledge, knowledge to revelation. You must do things in a proper order, please revise your statement.

The prophet of the elephant had a visitation from an angel who revealed the existence of the elephant. The prophet is my Aunt Matilda, who I trust on matters of life and death and who has no previous history of mental illness. Why would she lie about something like that? Why would an angel lie about something like that?

What prophet, what angel they were not mentioned before?

---

I do have another question, do you believe in free will, most nonbelievers argue against it whether they believe it or not. I see you mentioned it indirectly in your above answer.

Free will absolutely exists. That is the nature of a world WITHOUT a god.

Free will ceases to exist in the presence of a omnipotent, omniscient deity because foreknowledge of action removes our ability to choose another path and thus, cancels free will.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Because what you say has no sense to it. Unless you have foreknowledge of what will happen there's free will. Many of your fellow nonbelievers would argue there's no free will period. Sounds like you guys need to interpret your book in the same way.

---

I do have another question, do you believe in free will, most nonbelievers argue against it whether they believe it or not. I see you mentioned it indirectly in your above answer.

Let's play a game. I am going to give you a choice:

1. Choose to accept me and I will give you wonderfulness and beauty, a life of ease and greatness filled with love and awesomeness.

2. Choose not to accept me and I will murder your family, inflict unimaginable pain on your children, and torture you forever by taking away everything that means anything to you and filling your life with the greatest tragedy you can imagine.

Not much of a choice, is it?

This is the deal according to your god. So, I reiterate my point that, in a world with your god, free will does not exist. Because even if we are "free to choose" that choice is being forced upon us which makes it no choice at all.

Your god is like Kim Jung Un only not quite as mature.

"Be gone, satan! For it is written, " 'You shall worship the Lord your God and in Him only serve.'' Jesus reply to satan when tempted.

"Get behind me, satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."
Jesus reply to Peter when he rebuked Jesus.

Want to guess what my answer to you might be.

You've made claims about God, now it's time for you to prove them, I bet you are going to give me some excuse why you do not need to.

Could be that Kim Jung Un will not be judged as harshly as what might be coming your way.

[Mystical]

Still can't seem to go oNe thread without threatening eternal damnation, I see..

[Baalzebutt]

The prophet of the elephant had a visitation from an angel who revealed the existence of the elephant. The prophet is my Aunt Matilda, who I trust on matters of life and death and who has no previous history of mental illness. Why would she lie about something like that? Why would an angel lie about something like that?

What prophet, what angel they were not mentioned before?

---

Free will absolutely exists. That is the nature of a world WITHOUT a god.

Free will ceases to exist in the presence of a omnipotent, omniscient deity because foreknowledge of action removes our ability to choose another path and thus, cancels free will.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Because what you say has no sense to it. Unless you have foreknowledge of what will happen there's free will. Many of your fellow nonbelievers would argue there's no free will period. Sounds like you guys need to interpret your book in the same way.

---

Let's play a game. I am going to give you a choice:

1. Choose to accept me and I will give you wonderfulness and beauty, a life of ease and greatness filled with love and awesomeness.

2. Choose not to accept me and I will murder your family, inflict unimaginable pain on your children, and torture you forever by taking away everything that means anything to you and filling your life with the greatest tragedy you can imagine.

Not much of a choice, is it?

This is the deal according to your god. So, I reiterate my point that, in a world with your god, free will does not exist. Because even if we are "free to choose" that choice is being forced upon us which makes it no choice at all.

Your god is like Kim Jung Un only not quite as mature.

"Be gone, satan! For it is written, " 'You shall worship the Lord your God and in Him only serve.'' Jesus reply to satan when tempted.

"Get behind me, satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."
Jesus reply to Peter when he rebuked Jesus.

Want to guess what my answer to you might be.

You've made claims about God, now it's time for you to prove them, I bet you are going to give me some excuse why you do not need to.

Could be that Kim Jung Un will not be judged as harshly as what might be coming your way.

And what book might that be? Do you mean our holy atheist book? How do you know about that? You are not supposed to know about it. It is secret and for atheists only. Forget you ever heard of it.

Now down to business:

Did you seriously just tell me that I am going to hell? Two words: fuck you

Now, about these claims regarding your god, I will reference the only thing you seem to believe; your bible.

According to your bible, your god is a war monger, a separationist, a bigot, an advocate for slavery, rape and the killing of innocents and is so petulant and whiney that he destroyed all life on earth because his little toys weren't playing nice. He demanded blood sacrifice and fucked over one of his followers on a bet.

So, tell me child, in what way is your god not like a nasty, power hungry little dictator?

By the way, don't fucking preach at me. If you think your little bible verses are going to somehow banish me because I am of the devil, you need to get some professional help.

[Godscreated]

Was interested in your thoughts since you believe that Christians are persons brainwashed from birth and not all become Christians as children.

I did not say all Christians are brainwashed since birth. I said most Christians I know. I also know a few who were not brainwashed into it, but went into it on their own. Read what I said again.

I was answering your question of, Your point? You explained in your previous post about people who become Christians after they're adults.

I do have another question, do you believe in free will, most nonbelievers argue against it whether they believe it or not. I see you mentioned it indirectly in your above answer.

I must confess I used the term "own will" freely, failing to remember how some theists in these forums like to change the subject when they notice that they have nothing to say to defend their beliefs from something that was explained to them. It's fine, though. I'm fine going down this road if you like and prefer to not explain your god's intentions when not helping my family or myself, further explaining that god does indeed exist.

Sorry but I did not engage in the discussion about your family, I was not trying to change the subject either, all I have done was ask you questions and the question on free will came from your comment, things like that pop out like a sore thumb.

Let's see. Free will is a complex subject. First we have all the chemical processes that happen in our brain. This is where some atheists argue that there is no free will. The brain functions accordingly to the chemical activity and everything we do supposedly is the result of this. I work in the behavioral health field. I am a mentor for children with behavioral health needs. I have learned that yes, much of what we do is a result of the process of brain activity, but there is also another side to it. What we learn and what we want to learn. For example, a child who suffers from depression. We consider the hormone activity that affects the chemical balance. We also use therapy, family support, life skills practice, etc. Children learn how to detect symptoms, how to react to them, and how to move on. We might see a person who decides that she is tired of being depressed and so she begins to put in every effort to get better. She had a choice. To allow herself to rot, or to work on feeling better. Yes, the way the brain works can lead the direction of our lives when it comes to personality, character, and many of our decisions, but what we receive from the outside world, what wee learn can also have an affect if we want it to. It's like my new laptop. She (it's a girl) came with all kinds of prearranged attributes. I went ahead and installed some programs. If I were to not have it protected, it might catch a virus. Etc, etc. So... do I believe in free will? I believe we operate according to the messages that our brain sends us, which operates according to the messages that all that other mumbo jumbo send it. We can manipulate the process to a certain degree by using what we have learned and applying it. It's sort of like fixing my laptop. It might catch a virus, but I can get it fixed. No excuses. Unless it plain dry dies. Then there's no turning back.

However, I, unlike most Christians I know (note, I said most, godschild), am open to more information that might reveal that I am wrong.

Well it seems you might have said yes, I want hold you to my conclusion. The thing about a your laptop, the junk can be cleaned out as you said, then new info written in it's place. This could be compared to God cleaning up a life and writing His new info in. There's a difference though the laptop has no choice what gets cleaned out and what is then written in. A person has a choice to allow God to clean up their lives or not.

---

"Be gone, satan! For it is written, " 'You shall worship the Lord your God and in Him only serve.'' Jesus reply to satan when tempted.

"Get behind me, satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."
Jesus reply to Peter when he rebuked Jesus.

Want to guess what my answer to you might be.

You've made claims about God, now it's time for you to prove them, I bet you are going to give me some excuse why you do not need to.

Could be that Kim Jung Un will not be judged as harshly as what might be coming your way.

Did you seriously just tell me that I am going to hell? Two words: fuck you

Did I, is that what your conclusion is, as long as it's your conclusion?
I believe I qualified my response with might, I can not say one way or the other. Don't be so childish.

Now, about these claims regarding your god, I will reference the only thing you seem to believe; your bible.

According to your bible, your god is a war monger, a separationist, a bigot, an advocate for slavery, rape and the killing of innocents and is so petulant and whiney that he destroyed all life on earth because his little toys weren't playing nice. He demanded blood sacrifice and fucked over one of his followers on a bet.

You're drawing conclusions with no verses, for all I know you're repeating something some biased person told you, please give proper evidence, that would be book, chapters and verses and a reasonable explanation that is refutable, please. Tread lightly my friend.

So, tell me child, in what way is your god not like a nasty, power hungry little dictator?

By the way, don't fucking preach at me. If you think your little bible verses are going to somehow banish me because I am of the devil, you need to get some professional help.

God promises eternal life, with a forgiveness of sin, yep... a life cleansed from a deadly disease, sin. He gives all people a choice, if you choose hell He will give you a place there, if you choose heaven He will give you a place there. Why would you argue with that, you choose and He gives, He forces you into nothing, you are able to exercise free will.
You need to lighten up some, it's you that's reading into my post something that makes you mad. When I preach it's about salvation to those who are interested, now with that said could I have possibly had any intention of preaching to you.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

God promises eternal life, with a forgiveness of sin, yep... a life cleansed from a deadly disease, sin. He gives all people a choice, if you choose hell He will give you a place there, if you choose heaven He will give you a place there. Why would you argue with that, you choose and He gives, He forces you into nothing, you are able to exercise free will.
You need to lighten up some, it's you that's reading into my post something that makes you mad. When I preach it's about salvation to those who are interested, now with that said could I have possibly had any intention of preaching to you.

Now all we need is evidence to support your assertions and we can finally get this debate off the ground.


By the way, what if your choice in life is "none of the above"? Is that just a euphemism for "hell"?

[Baalzebutt]

You're drawing conclusions with no verses, for all I know you're repeating something some biased person told you, please give proper evidence, that would be book, chapters and verses and a reasonable explanation that is refutable, please. Tread lightly my friend.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to quote from your bible on things that are well known amongst both theists and atheists.

But here are a few anyway:

(GENOCIDE, KILLING OF INNOCENTS) 1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

(BLOOD SACRIFICE) Leviticus 1:1-17 (too long to insert here. Look it up.)

(KILLING EVERYONE ON EARTH) Genesis 7:1-24(ish) (Again, too long. Look it up.)

And don't tell me that this was all "righteous" either. This is only a few of the hundreds of examples of your gods royal dickness. The idea that you have a loving god is unjustifiable in any way.

Now, how about you support your assertions that your god is good.

[Esquilax]

Now, how about you support your assertions that your god is good.

How about he supports his assertion that his god is extant?

[Baalzebutt]

Now, how about you support your assertions that your god is good.

How about he supports his assertion that his god is extant?

Good call.

Funny though. I always got the impression GC was female.

[Tonus]

Funny though. I always got the impression GC was female.

You're thinking of Destiny's Child.