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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 20, 2013 at 6:10 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2013 at 6:12 pm by fr0d0.)
You would treat your dog with justice missluckie (yay I added you to my dictionary!!  ). I can't disagree with that.
if, after chastising your dog as well as would be possible, your dog still attacked a child and killed it. Would you think it just that the pound put it down?
God then takes the rebellious spirited dog and gives it the chance to make amends posthumously. In the end, the dog sees what you we're trying to teach it was right. And God finally welcomes him home.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 20, 2013 at 9:19 pm
Hey I was beginning to like Missy C, I made it my nickname on a theist forum! 
Im going to stop the analogy right here because at this point I'd have to take on the attributes of god and even I am not that self involved. Lets look at god and his dog. God made the dog with teeth then put it down for biting. Perhaps the dog itself had been tortured by little kids as a puppy or has a mental defect that makes it irrationally lash out or maybe the dog read the gods highly interpretive word and concluded that that little girl needed to die. Maybe the dog is just an asshole and wanted to kill a little girl, I dunno. God let an innocent little girl suffer at the hands of an animal that he knew ahead of time was going to kill, and with his all magnificent power, failed to protect the little girl and failed the dog whom he made and knew what it would do. I would not be angry at anyone but god for the dog being put down, then I'd consider it sadistic to punish the dog in the afterlife.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
![[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/5fb74c6d16622fb3dbb358509c9aec03/tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif)
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 1:40 am
If the dog was innocent for any reason then a just God wouldn't punish it. It'd be sat at Gods feet enjoying the good life upon death.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 1:48 am
It is a dog eats little girl world out there, folks. 
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
- Dr. Donald Prothero
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 1:55 am
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2013 at 1:58 am by Mystical.)
Where would the justice for the little girl be, fr0do? Don't say heaven ohhh don't even say it. Lets assume she's an atheist.
Bigger point being god made the place where the girl he also created meets his other creation that kills her. That's like sticking a kitten in an aquarium with a rattlesnake. Its sick. I refuse to believe if there is a god, he's that sadistic.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 2:14 am
I didn't deal with the girl because that would be duplicating the subject.
If the girl is bad, then a just God would have to redress the balance. If the girl was any percent evil at death then a corrective measure would need enforcing.
We need to accept reality for what it is. It's awesomeness is due to how beautiful and terrible it is/ can be.
Life isn't fair. If you want it to be fair, then consider God.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 2:36 am
You're the one touting justice, not me. I don't care if a murderer pays for his actions in eternal torment or not. I do care that if he can be caught and prevented from murdering again he should be locked up and rehabilitated. I am not the one here who has incongruent to reality expectations. Not to mention the whole conversation we just had where I demonstrated the system you believe in has an unjust god at the wheel.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 2:36 am
To suppose that the world is the arbiter of justice is silly. It owes us nothing - it was here first.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
- Dr. Donald Prothero
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 3:27 am
(June 21, 2013 at 2:36 am)missluckie26 Wrote: You're the one touting justice, not me. I don't care if a murderer pays for his actions in eternal torment or not. I do care that if he can be caught and prevented from murdering again he should be locked up and rehabilitated. I am not the one here who has incongruent to reality expectations.
If you don't care, then you are content with injustice. I have no problem with that.
We have an ethical duty to enforce (wrong word perhaps, I can't think of another) justice. If you're talking about a just God, he can do no other. Just like you chastised your dog and it was bad anyway. Are you to blame? In your scenario, you are. You, acting with perfect justice, failed to correct the dog. Because you gave the dog freedom to make it's own choices.
My expectations are not incongruent to reality. I agree with you that life is unfair. Our beliefs are all that differ. You don't believe in a just God. I do. Neither of us can say the other is wrong.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 2:15 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2013 at 2:18 pm by Mystical.)
Yes, now you got me. Injustice is a fact of life and there's no way to ensure perfect justice.
I can, however, say your god is unjust and I have given examples of how he is based on your faith and logic (allbeit a dog analogy). If you have a rebuttal to the points I made other than telling me I can't tell you you're wrong, then we have something to discuss 
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
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