"I'll pray for you."

[fr0d0]

Studies measure the supernatural!?

Wow. You guys have written proof of illogicality. I guess you can't argue with that!

Can you also get written confirmation of square circles?

Atheism is true! I'm wrong, I admit it!

[Zen Badger]

Studies measure the supernatural!?

Wow. You guys have written proof of illogicality. I guess you can't argue with that!

Can you also get written confirmation of square circles?

Atheism is true! I'm wrong, I admit it!

Supernatural phenomena that according to you have an effect in the real world.

And therefore,by definition, have a measurable effect.

So unless you can come up with a counter study that says otherwise.....

[fr0d0]

First you have no know what those supernatural phenomenon are. You have prayer requests but you don't know Gods answer.

Second you need a supernatural event detector. And you don't have one .

Third, you need to be able to distinguish supernatural events from natural events. If those events are truly supernatural, you shouldn't be able to detect them.

Looks like you've got your work cut out!

[Cyberman]

So how can you know that every prayer isn't answered consistently? I find this an astounding claim.
Prayers are always answered according to Gods will. 100% consistently..

Here's a fun experiment to try. Next time you talk to yourself pray, do it to Zeus or Quetzacoatl or Ceiling Cat. Maybe do it many times and compare the consistency of results with the bog standard stuff to your own pet gods. Take some time to consider the conclusion instead of rationalising it away.

Studies measure the supernatural!?

All the time. Check out the above, which, while maybe not exactly up to JREF standards and not offering a cash prize, is at least easy to do since it tests exactly what is claimed of what you say you do anyway.

[Zarith]

First you have no know what those supernatural phenomenon are. You have prayer requests but you don't know Gods answer.

Second you need a supernatural event detector. And you don't have one .

Third, you need to be able to distinguish supernatural events from natural events. If those events are truly supernatural, you shouldn't be able to detect them.

Looks like you've got your work cut out!

But people make prayer requests all the time asking for changes in the natural world.

You seem to believe supernatural = untestable, which is not at all the case, there have been many scientific studies on things like ESP, telekinesis, faith healing, fortune telling, water divination, and so on. It's not that these phenomena are impossible to measure in principle, it's that when we do measure them, we get the null result.

All of these things say that there exist detectable events in the natural world which have supernatural causes. Claims like this are entirely testable. So is a claim like 'praying for X makes X more likely' where X is a detectable event in the natural world. Perhaps you don't take this particular stance, but many people do, and there's nothing illogical about testing a claim like this, even if it turns out to be false.

Now, you seem to believe that they do get answered, but maybe in unpredictable and immeasurable ways. Fine. But if the question is, "Will my act of prayer make this sick person more likely to recover?" and the data says "No" ... what exactly is the point again?

[Faith No More]

So how can you know that every prayer isn't answered consistently? I find this an astounding claim.
Prayers are always answered according to Gods will. 100% consistently.

Interesting...first you mock him for claiming he knows prayers are not answered consistently, then you go on to claim to know prayers are always answered consistently.

What gives you the right to espouse bullshit you mock others for?

[Foxaèr]

What gives you the right to espouse bullshit you mock others for?

He is probably making the ridiculous claim that god not answering prayers is his way of answering them.

[fr0d0]

Testing just proves that those things aren't supernatural. They never were. Religion teaches against such falsities. Superstition is evil. Supernatural, by definition is untestable. Think about it.

Any change to the natural world would appear to have natural causes. Without fail. Otherwise the nature of God would be false.
Likewise the likelyhood of prayer being successful. With the massive possible permutations in any given scenario, you simply cannot, as expanded upon earlier, predict anything given your complete lack of ability to do so.

Prayer for healing of the sick is answered exactly the same as any other prayer: as God wills it. God will hear your prayer. You have to accept the answer. Never ever are you given the right to change anything without Gods involvement. I find such a suggestion absurd in the extreme.

---

So how can you know that every prayer isn't answered consistently? I find this an astounding claim.
Prayers are always answered according to Gods will. 100% consistently.

Interesting...first you mock him for claiming he knows prayers are not answered consistently, then you go on to claim to know prayers are always answered consistently.

What gives you the right to espouse bullshit you mock others for?

His is demonstrably bullshit, as I have proven. Mine is supported by logic, as I have proven.

I think I have every right to state the fact. Why don't you?

[Faith No More]

His is demonstrably bullshit, as I have proven. Mine is supported by logic, as I have proven.

I think I have every right to state the fact. Why don't you?

Surely you jest. You have proven nothing except for the fact that you feel the right to state bare assertions as fact while simultaneously chastising others for doing the same.

[fr0d0]

So please show how you discount the 3 points in this post please FNM.

I've presented my logic here. it's you that is making bare assertions.

First you have no know what those supernatural phenomenon are. You have prayer requests but you don't know Gods answer.

Second you need a supernatural event detector. And you don't have one .

Third, you need to be able to distinguish supernatural events from natural events. If those events are truly supernatural, you shouldn't be able to detect them.

Looks like you've got your work cut out!