Miracles and Anti-supernaturalism

[Mister Agenda]

You (and others) have taken it upon yourself to try and discredit me, as a person....because of my lack of stats?

No one can discredit you but you.

Not to mention 10 of you coming from every direction...and each treating me like I have your undivided attention!

Being in the minority position online an uncomfortable experience for you? Imagine what it's like in real life.

I didn't research anything but was in "THAT ARTICLE". You know, the one you, and the others didn't read. But I'm supposed to READ EVERYTHING!

You're supposed to acknowledge or rebut valid points.

If it's personal persecution lets go in that direction from this point forward. I can fight when I'm being assaulted.

You've certainly demonstrated you can whine, I'm inclined to take your word that you can fight. Being expected to able to defend your claims isn't what most of us consider assault, though.

If its an exchange of ideas, concepts and experiences lets do that instead.

It would certainly be a nice change of pace from 'throw out something you heard on the internet, have it easily rebutted, whine about being picked on.'

But, I won't do both (like you have handily done). I haven't tried to discredit, abuse or assualt anyone here with my pov. I just express it. I don't resort to name calling and swearing, and ridicule...it's not what I want to do.

You're not actually under the impression that you've been courteous and respectful are you?

If I sound "condescending" as I've been wrongly accused of, its because of my enthusiasm. Not because I hate you! Or think I know it all.

So it's our fault you sound condescending?

But, lets compare that to all the cussing at me...for stating my opinion?

Just because you're good at being insulting while avoiding certain words doesn't mean you're being more polite than someone who uses the words you disapprove of.

Why?

I haven't cussed at you personally, but I would imagine it has something to do with the way you show a lack of integrity when you respond to people and when that's exposed, you start throwing accusations of persecution around with many caps and exclamation points.

If [any] of you can't express themseleves w/o shit, then why expect any explanations of anything I put forth? Why not expect the same bullshit back?

Using the word 'shit' doesn't make what you say bullshit. Saying things that aren't true makes what you say bullshit. Use bad words if it makes you feel better, we'll continue to focus on the quality of support your claims have.

I think the scriptural people here are alot better off than myself! I chose to approach atheists from a "common sense" pov. But, everyone here (atheists) fancy themseleves "intellectuals".

Lots of things that are common sense aren't actually true, but actual common sense at least sounds like it makes sense. What we consider ourselves has no bearing on the quality of your arguments or ours.

And as a common sense person... I've had many experiences with intellectuals who can write 10 page math formulars, but can't change a light bulb. So, the divide is deep.

The ratio of people who can change light bulbs but can't do a 5th grade math problem is much more skewed. So what?

And now I see there is no common ground from that method.

Have you considered intellectual honesty? It's well-respected around here. It involves things like acknowledging mistakes, admitting it when you don't know something, not purposefully omitting relevant information, and not presenting facts in a misleading way.

[ronedee]

So... no argument, again? That's cool. Better get those Persecution Brakes replaced before they wear out, though. Wouldn't want them to fail, so you go careening right into recognition that you're wrong.

Do you people talk just to hear yourself? Nothing of which you or the others say about me is true.

I'm not effected in any manner by your rumblings. A lot of you said, that I would be gone in short order! It's going on a year and you haven't moved me to leave just yet! Actually, I'm pretty comfy!

Every line is riddled with assumption and assertions. aka untruths. That's what happens when you try to talk about things that you have no answer for.

When emotions spew, its justified by my words in CAPS? Very laughable!Can I give you any other excuses for vulgarity?

How about trying to use your "same words" in ....say.... a visit to City Hall while arguing about your tax bill? How would that get anything accomplished?

I said it.... and will say it again, if you want to converse about a given subject [in this case "miracles"], fine. Lets have at it.... if you just want to rant about things you don't know about (specifically me) you are only showing how significant I really am! i.e. the volumes of rubbish you write about me! And using my quotes!

Your hero Dawkins would be mortified! "Wasting all your time, and breath on a lowly Catholic." I am flattered though.

[Cyberman]

Have you considered intellectual honesty? It's well-respected around here. It involves things like acknowledging mistakes, admitting it when you don't know something, not purposefully omitting relevant information, and not presenting facts in a misleading way.

And I'll just add: not whining when someone dares to question what you decide to share - of your own free will, I doubt someone's holding a gun to your head - instead of applauding you as some great philosopher. Try to remember this is a discussion forum, not a pulpit. You'll not find many credulous sheep around here.

[Bad Writer]

Nothing of which you or the others say about me is true.

Now's your chance to prove that we're lying about you. Go ahead. We're all waiting patiently.

I'm not effected in any manner by your rumblings.

This is just silly. "Effect" as a verb is spelled "a-f-f-e-c-t", and I think you meant to say "ramblings", not "rumblings". Or maybe you really meant "rumblings"? Well, I hope no one is suffering from my rumblings...must mean it's time to eat.

Every line is riddled with assumption and assertions. aka untruths. That's what happens when you try to talk about things that you have no answer for.

Projecting much?

I said it.... and will say it again, if you want to converse about a given subject [in this case "miracles"], fine. Lets have at it.... if you just want to rant about things you don't know about (specifically me) you are only showing how significant I really am! i.e. the volumes of rubbish you write about me! And using my quotes!

I don't know if I can penetrate this kind of delusion and crazy. Esq?

[Esquilax]

I don't know if I can penetrate this kind of delusion and crazy. Esq?

On it.

Do you people talk just to hear yourself? Nothing of which you or the others say about me is true.

It's fairly explicit in your actions: rather than answer any of our objections with a well thought out response, you've instead decided that since so many of us have disagreed with you, we must be out to get you specifically. Not that there might be a possibility that you're wrong or misinformed, no! We're out to "assault" you!

Instead of furthering the conversation, you used your illusory persecution as cover for the fact that you have no more arguments to make. It's a fairly standard theist tactic, though they aren't always as... shrill, as you are about it.

I'm not effected in any manner by your rumblings. A lot of you said, that I would be gone in short order! It's going on a year and you haven't moved me to leave just yet! Actually, I'm pretty comfy!

And it's been enough time for me and others to notice your go to tactic: argue until you lose, then... Whine!

Every line is riddled with assumption and assertions. aka untruths. That's what happens when you try to talk about things that you have no answer for.

Please, do take us through them. For someone with so many legitimate grievances, you do seem to be talking awfully generally. And why is it you aren't simply continuing the debate, in that case? You put us here.

When emotions spew, its justified by my words in CAPS? Very laughable!Can I give you any other excuses for vulgarity?

Oh, I don't need an excuse, I'm Australian. Actually, I barely even hear it when I swear anymore, it's just conversational spice. I take it you were so absorbed in my single use of the word "shit" in the last post that you completely forgot I also made several arguments you're avoiding?

How about trying to use your "same words" in ....say.... a visit to City Hall while arguing about your tax bill? How would that get anything accomplished?

And, once again, the meaningless generalities: context is important. I'm not at city hall, and you certainly aren't that important or integral to my day. What I am doing, is talking to a narcissistic, possibly delusional theist with a definite persecution complex and an inability to defend his position at all.

It's not something I'm enjoying. I need the swears.

I said it.... and will say it again, if you want to converse about a given subject [in this case "miracles"], fine.

If that were true, you never would have devolved to this pathetic attempt at weaseling out of it. Please, do answer my and others legitimate objections to your weak claim. I'd rather enjoy that.

Lets have at it.... if you just want to rant about things you don't know about (specifically me) you are only showing how significant I really am! i.e. the volumes of rubbish you write about me! And using my quotes!

So, when you decided that all of us didn't want to know the truth based on the nothing you know about us, and that we're just attacking you personally because we hate you or something, that wasn't ranting?

Why am I even expecting you'll realize your hypocrisy, let alone answer for it? You seem to have almost no self awareness. It's a wonder you don't walk into more walls.

Although that would explain a lot...

Your hero Dawkins would be mortified! "Wasting all your time, and breath on a lowly Catholic." I am flattered though.

My hero? I thought you were just saying how bad it is to talk about people you don't know?

Either way, consider this charity: I'm under the (rapidly receding) hope that there might be something sensible about you. Please, just for once, try not to disappoint.

[Bad Writer]

Either way, consider this charity: I'm under the (rapidly receding) hope that there might be something sensible about you [ronedee].

I actually agree with Esq on this. If you, ronedee, have taken to cringing from the positions of our arguments and rebuttals, that tells me that the words strike a certain chord in you. Nobody likes to see their perfect castle fall to the ground. What some fail to realize is that in the rebuilding process, you don't use the same blueprint as before; you need something with a more solid foundation, something that has been demonstrated to work.

[Minimalist]

I believe in God's [plan]: Beit 4 Jesuits surviving an Atom bomb, or millions dying in a tsunami. Nothing matters when you trust in God.

What a delusional fuckwit you are. Where do ass-raped altar boys fit into this plan or your god's?

Anyway....I got to wondering how much bullshit you were shoveling and to my (utter) non-surprise found that this account that you put forward as "fact" is repeated incessantly on catholic websites but by no one else. Curious....I'm sure even a fool like you knows where this is going...I did a bit more research and found that Father Kleinsorge was one of the characters who was discussed in the book "Hiroshima" by John Hersey.

Let's see how Father Kleinsorge made out, shall we?

While reading his morning paper, Father Wilhem Kleinsorge witnesses a “terrible flash…[like] a large meteor colliding with the earth”.[4] He found himself in the vegetable garden of the missionary with only small cuts.

So.. not praying any fucking rosary.

Father Kleinsorge is found wondering the mission grounds with numerous pieces of glass in his back. Father Kleinsorge ran into his room and grabbed a first aid kit and his suitcase containing money and paperwork of the mission. Father Kleinsorge and others go out and bring food back for everyone at Asano Park.

"God" falling down on the job, here.

On August 12, the Nakamuras continued to be sick and discovered the rest of their family had perished. Mr. Tanimoto continues to ferry people from one side of the river to the other in hopes to bring them to safety from the fires. Father Kleinsorge, weakened by his injuries and previous illness, remains in the Park.

4 days later...weakened by what were supposedly minor injuries?

Even into September, Father Kleinsorge is getting worse. He was taken to the hospital for a high fever, anemia and low leukocyte levels.

Not looking good, huh?

Father Wilhelm Kleinsorge continued to suffer from radiation exposure. In 1958, he was named the priest at a much larger church in another part of town. He became a Japanese citizen and changed his named to Father Makoto Takakura. He fell into a coma and died on November 19, 1977.

So much for your claim of no radiation sickness.

Thus, one is inclined to wonder if you even care that you are spouting holy horseshit? I imagine not. I grew up with catholics and they all sucked.

[Bad Writer]

That's an awesome bit of research. Even if ronedee's claim had been completely factual, the miracle was still nowhere to be found.

[Minimalist]

Father La Salle:

He travelled to Japan as a missionary in 1929 and became interested in that country's Buddhist practices. In 1940, he became the vicar of Hiroshima, and on 6 August 1945 he was critically wounded by the nuclear blast in that city. Shortly thereafter, he returned to Germany.

Strike two.

---

And Strike 3.

Also from Hiroshima by Hersey.

Just then, the two other priests living in the mission
house appearedFather Cieslik, unhurt, supporting
Father Schifier, who was covered with blood that
spurted from a cut above his left ear and who was
very pale. Father Cieslik was rather pleased with
himself, for after the flash he, had dived into a doorway,

which he had previously reckoned to be the safest
place inside the building, and when the blast came, he
was not injured. Father LaSalle told Father Cieslik to
take Father Schiffer to a doctor before he bled to death,

The one who was unhurt...Father Cieslik...had to assist the supposedly uninjured Schiffer. Shortly above this passage it explains that Cieslik was feeling awful from a stomach problem and parked his ass on a chair with a pillow over his stomach. Guess god can't handle a stomach virus as well as an atom bomb, eh? In any case, none of them were fucking praying but Cieslik dove into the doorway which is hardly miraculous and probably indicates that he paid attention to Jesuit lectures on surviving artillery fire.

[Esquilax]

Min, you're awesome. I guess my google-fu wasn't up to it, but I'm glad someone even angrier than I was around to pick up the slack.

Predicted response from ronedee: "I guess you never bothered to read the article! If only you'd get past your ignorance and need to bash god, you'd see!"

... Just maybe inflated over nine more paragraphs.