Is Hell Really a Bad Place?

[Edwardo Piet]

That and the eternal torture part.

[Godscreated]

God makes no one suffer, it is a choice of each individual while living this life.

A choice, eh? Intersting. Can you show an example that supports you, at least, the conscious self that identifies with "You", is at all the author of your thoughts? When "you" "make" a decision, are you looking at a field of options in your mind before hind? Does your brain lay out all the information it has sotred pertaining to the decision at hand for you to consider before you select the option that best suits you, or is it more like thoughts appearing in your mind for you to "choose" from?

I make my decisions, based upon what I think through and accept the consequences, unlike those who want to blame anything and everyone for their bad decisions, in my part of the country we call that being cowardly. At least here we grow up to be men and women of principle.

Anyway, from where did those thoughts arise? If you don't know, you are certainly not the author of them, at least not the conscious "You" that you consider to be yourself. In fact, science has proved multiple times that your thoughts and decisions can be detected moments, sometimes even seconds before your conscious self even becomes aware of them! "You" is more accurately an uninvolved observer. A witness to thoughts and decisions that were made by your subconscious, which were molded for you by your genetics, your environment, your upbringing, life experiences, the free will part, is all an illusion.

You might be control by your thoughtless unconscious mind, however your weakness doesn't have to apply to me nor does it, sorry you feel so unable to stand up for what you believe. I suspect you are just looking for excuses so you do not have to face reality.

Even if you believe you have a soul, which I know you probably do, and you think that the material mind is NOT the only guiding entity, these truths are not affected. You can take no more credit for the types of things your soul guides you to than you can for the next words I'm about to say. You did not get to pick the soul you got anymore than I got to pick my subconcious. Be honest with yourself, and really consider what I'm telling you. You'll notice immediately that this is true. Even right now, while you read this, your subconscious is determining how you respond. If there's a God, he has already programmed us to end up in whatever bin he will ulitmately be sorting us into. Justice you say?

Are you preaching here, sounds like you're trying to convert me to your way of thinking. I'm always honest with myself, even to the point I know God convicts me about decisions I am to make. He still allows me to make the decision right or wrong, he still allows it. If God did not allow me to be a free moral agent then what good would my faith be?

Yes I was raised in the so called Bible belt of the southern U.S.

Would this affect the subconscious agenda of your mind/soul?

My subconscious has no agenda, I'm a conscious moral agent free to make conscious decisions. Where I was raised was a blessing, it allowed me to find God in a more timely way and less dangerous than some other countries. Where I was born has nothing to do with finding God, because in actuality God came to me.

Muslims do not hear from god because their god is not real, they claim the God of Abraham

Did you decide who your parents were going to be? Because, if not, you can take no more credit for being raised in a "bible belt" than they can for being born into areas which exposed them to the concepts you reject. Had you been born there, you would be singing a different tune, at least, it would have been very likely.

No, God decided who my parents would be, He knew me before I was conceived. Who said I took credit for where I was born, seem you are applying something to me I never said, that's a problem.
IF, if, if I'm tired of hearing this nonsense, those ifs did not happen, they are not a part of my life, so guess what, I do not waste my time considering ifs. You should try leaving them out of your life, you might find that you can make your own decisions.

Reincarnation without a true god seems impossible

Hmm...I have seen no evidence of it occurring with or without a God. This true God part seems to still be in the air.

It hasn't occurred even with God, and as far as God goes He might be up in the air to you, but as for me and my family He is quite real.

how would a dead man bring himself back to life as another.

You don't seem to have any problem believing that Jesus was a God version of a man, and that he did something quite similar to this. Don't you see? You don't have a rational foundation for your thoughts. You really have no control over the types of things you're willing to hold as true.

I have no problem believing Jesus was God and man while He was on earth 2000 years ago. He did nothing like reincarnation, He was resurrected as the same God and man He was before. I have complete control over what I believe, I feel sorry for those who believe they are a slave to their unconscious mind.

GC

[Edwardo Piet]

I feel sorry for those who believe they are a slave to their unconscious mind.

I feel sorry that you are not aware that you feel sorry for such people who know the fact of the matter due to a source outside your own conscious mind ultimately determining you to feel that way.



HT

[The Reality Salesman01]

There's your free will. Boo yah!!

[Edwardo Piet]

I'd fuck free-will in the ear, but that would require it to exist.

[Godscreated]

Only the foolishness of ignorance could produce a statement like that. A compassionate judge given a verdict of guilty from a jury may not want to sentence a person to life in prison, but the law of justice requires him to do so. Does this concept also go over your head.

1: The judge, in practice, is bound by the laws of the state, laws that are above his position.

Why do you believe that God is not bound by the truth of His law, not the laws He gave man to live by, but actually who He is.

2: The judge did not create the judicial system or the prison in which the guilty will be held.

Judges are always reworking the judicial system in many ways.

God created both the system by which to judge people, and the place of eternal torture in which to keep them.

God did not create the system one is judged by, one is judged by the righteousness of God, God was not created and neither was His justice. Yes He created hell, for those who are guilty, and in that hell all the guilty will be sealed away forever, that's the price of eternally unforgiven sin according to the scripture which is the word of God.

When I was a JW, we believed the Christian concept of hell was against a loving god, and that the punish for sin was what he said at the beginning to Adam and Eve.... death, eternal non-existence, nothing more nothing less.

That's not what God said to Adam and Eve, but maybe it was in the book you were reading, seeing how the JWs rewrote the Bible to suit them.

GC

[Bad Writer]

GC, let's take these forums for an example. You may have the illusion of free will on here because you apparently have the ability to post whatever you want. But with that being said, one of the posts you've chosen to put up violates forum rules, and then you're banned. Do you still have the choice to come back and post some more, or was your free will an illusion all along? The latter is true, because you can't post anymore. You never had free will in the first place. No matter where we go we are bound by rules. Do we have choices? Sure we do. Are they all consequence free? Hell no. Christianity is not consequence free, so there is no free will in it either.

[Godscreated]

Only the foolishness of ignorance could produce a statement like that. A compassionate judge given a verdict of guilty from a jury may not want to sentence a person to life in prison, but the law of justice requires him to do so. Does this concept also go over your head.

Others have already covered this, but I will reiterate and will try to keep it simple. A judge is bound by the laws of the land. An omnipotent god is bound by nothing. Surely even someone as feeble-minded as yourself can grasp this.

By the way, I'm dying to know, what does Jesus think of your arrogance?

I'm stating truths, if you want to call that arrogance then please by all means do, it does nothing to prove your point though. I would think He would be pleased because I'm making a stand for what is truthful.

How could you possibly know anything about a being you do not believe exists, could you have been more contradictory, I think not. God is bound by who He is, that is how He can judge with objective truth.

GC

[The Reality Salesman01]

I make my decisions, based upon what I think through and accept the consequences, unlike those who want to blame anything and everyone for their bad decisions, in my part of the country we call that being cowardly. At least here we grow up to be men and women of principle.

Really? We'll see if you've provided any evidence of you being in control of your choices, or if its another claim you can't back up. As for being cowardly, it doesn't surprise me that somebody like you feels that way, given your display of ignorance pertaining to how the human mind works. Didn't watch the video huh? Too long was it? Oh well, Let's read on anyway.

You might be control by your thoughtless unconscious mind, however your weakness doesn't have to apply to me nor does it, sorry you feel so unable to stand up for what you believe. I suspect you are just looking for excuses so you do not have to face reality.

Whoops! There's that diarrhea of the mouth again. Wait and see if your brain gives you something else to say before you just type the first thing it gives you. Its not your fault, you didn't know you were going to sound stupid by typing what you just typed. Anyway, this time, read what I wrote. You literally just claimed to be able to think about your thoughts, before you think them. Can you please describe how you do that? Where do your thoughts come from GC? Don't just start typing things. Try to understand what's being said to you. I'm not ignoring reality, I'm showing you the illusion of yours. Show me evidence of your ability to know what you're going to think, before you think it. If you can't, the conscious you, is not the author of your thoughts. Reply to my bolded argument.

If God did not allow me to be a free moral agent then what good would my faith be?

Hmm...You're now in the ballpark of what I'm trying to get you to realize. You say you have the choice to choose right or wrong. If your decision was made moments before your conscious self was aware of it, how is it that you feel that you can take credit for what occurred?

My subconscious has no agenda, I'm a conscious moral agent free to make conscious decisions.

That's about the stupidest thing I've heard all day. Your subconscious controls everything before your conscious self even becomes aware of it. There's evidence of it. I provided some in my last post. I suppose you have evidence of the contrary? You must have either not understood a single thing that I provided you with in my post, or your an idiot. I don't know which is more plausible at the moment.

Where I was raised was a blessing, it allowed me to find God in a more timely way and less dangerous than some other countries.

Are you free to choose from that which does not occur to you as an option?

(If I told you to pick any city in the world, and tell it to me. What would it be? After you pick, pull out a map of the world, and skim over it. Look at all the names of the cities you knew, but didn't occur to you when I asked the question. Why didn't you pick those? You knew them, you were free to pick them, and yet, your brain didn't offer them to you as options... )

Are you free to choose from that which you DO NOT KNOW is an option?

( What about all the cities you did NOT know? You couldn't have picked any of those if your life depended on it! Where's the free will in that GC?
The Hindu people of India just happened to "find" Hinduism? It had nothing to do with being in a predominantly Hindu country?)

Where I was born has nothing to do with finding God, because in actuality God came to me.

I don't doubt that you actually think that. But, because you don't have any evidence to make that sound believable, I'm going to reject it on the grounds that it resembles psychopathy.

No, God decided who my parents would be, He knew me before I was conceived. Who said I took credit for where I was born, seem you are applying something to me I never said, that's a problem.

No, I'm saying things to you that you do not understand. God picking the family you were born into takes more credit away from your case. If he knew who your parents were going to be, you have to recognize how your belief in free will begins to crumble. Given your geographical location, you were more likely to associate your "experience of God talking to you" with the Christian God, and from there, more likely to find people willing to reinforce that delusion. The family you were born into determined your genetic code. It determined the environment from which you derived your belief system, morals, and values. Its a FACT, that had you been born into a different family, into a different place, you would be a DIFFERENT PERSON. God chose the kind of person you were going to be by choosing the family you were born into. Had he chosen a Hindu family, guess what? Surely you can figure this out.

IF, if, if I'm tired of hearing this nonsense, those ifs did not happen, they are not a part of my life, so guess what, I do not waste my time considering ifs. You should try leaving them out of your life, you might find that you can make your own decisions.

False. I can't take any more credit for the decisions I make than you can for yours. The point of the IFs, is to illustrate that NONE of the things you attribute to what lead you to God were in your control. You had no part in any of it. You have no evidence to support otherwise. You think you did, because you want to think that, but that's not knowledge. You need to do some quiet thinking by yourself for a while. I've given you plenty to keep you busy.

It hasn't occurred even with God, and as far as God goes He might be up in the air to you, but as for me and my family He is quite real.

Not you nor your family has properly examined the criteria for that which you hold to be true or real. You have no way of distinguishing existence from non-existence. Your entire belief system is built upon presuppositions, illusions, delusions, biases, fear, and circular logic.

I have no problem believing Jesus was God and man while He was on earth 2000 years ago. He did nothing like reincarnation, He was resurrected as the same God and man He was before.

That's like saying you have no problem believing that a man can give natural birth to a baby, but if I told you I could fly, that's where you would draw the line. You need to consider adopting some criterion for truth. You don't know which direction your thoughts are going.

I have complete control over what I believe.

Care to back that claim up with evidence or an argument that makes it believable? If not, I will side with the evidence that says your wrong.

I feel sorry for those who believe they are a slave to their unconscious mind.

Have you ever heard of Psychiatry or maybe Neuroscience? They're a couple branches of science that you've just insulted with the stupid things you've said in this reply...But of course, your church has probably given you better data to consider than the stuff those silly doctors have been using, right?

[Godscreated]

GC, let's take these forums for an example. You may have the illusion of free will on here because you apparently have the ability to post whatever you want. But with that being said, one of the posts you've chosen to put up violates forum rules, and then you're banned. Do you still have the choice to come back and post some more, or was your free will an illusion all along? The latter is true, because you can't post anymore. You never had free will in the first place. No matter where we go we are bound by rules. Do we have choices? Sure we do. Are they all consequence free? Hell no. Christianity is not consequence free, so there is no free will in it either.

This has to be the most insane, unreasoned statement I've ever heard.

GC