Measles Outbreak at Vaccine-Denying Church

[Minimalist]

That is because science is taught and framed in such a way as to dismiss anything God does that science can not explain.

First you have to demonstrate that your fucking god exists before he can "do" anything, Drippy. You always try to skip Step #1.

You are not entitled to that kind of leeway. You have no credibility.

[Ryantology]

That is because science is taught and framed in such a way as to dismiss anything God does that science can not explain. Or have you forgotten our discussion on Aids in this last week?

Why should science acknowledge the activities of a God who, by all indications, doesn't exist?

Again God does alot in ourworld today. It's just dismissed because 'science' can not reproduce what He alone has done. and because scientist can not reproduce it, it is somehow dismissed as not being possiable.

Science doesn't dismiss the presence of God. It refuses to acknowledge the presence of God because nobody has demonstrated this presence to be true. If one of you can ever get around to proving that your God is more than your deluded fantasies, science would certainly take God into account.

[Mister Agenda]

It's always hard to believe that there people this dumb.

The only thing these people are guilty of is the idea that God can not work miricals through science, and as a result have shunned what they do not understand. Which ironically, is true for the majority of atheist I have spoken with over the years. The only difference between this one extreme and the atheist extreme is that you hold opposing views on God.

Plus, our children are properly vaccinated.

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It seems as though God is incapable of working miracles without science.

I pointed out that I had a positive Hiv test along with some flagship symptoms of full blown AIDS, and upon my follow up two weeks later my symptoms were gone and my test came back negitive. The only thing I did was pray durning that time. My doctor called it a mirical and even tried to document the case but was dismissed because 'science' was not able to classify what had happened.

I'm very glad you don't have HIV. But all that happened was that you got a false positive while being under the weather. It happens, and people who don't pray about it or pray to a different god about it also sometimes find out they've gotten a false positive, too. The test isn't foolproof. Your doctor couldn't document it because there was no evidence but the test and a subjective diagnosis that you had HIV in the first place.

Well, I guess it happens often enough to be given a classification now, but still it can not be explained unles someone calls it (by faith) a mutated form of HIV.

Or a false postive. The accuracy rate of HIV tests varies, the more accurate ones tend to also be more expensive. An accuracy rate of 99% (way better than the ELISA test, which has a reputation for false postiives) means that a test will either give a false positive or a false negative on one person in a hundred.

Again God does alot in ourworld today. It's just dismissed because 'science' can not reproduce what He alone has done. and because scientist can not reproduce it, it is somehow dismissed as not being possiable.

Maybe it's dismissed because people who believe it give such bad examples.

What a backwards way to think.

Highly debatable, but even if it were, it's not as backwards as thinking that one of the messages of the Bible is to not have your children vaccinated.

[Drich]

That is because science is taught and framed in such a way as to dismiss anything God does that science can not explain.

That is because not having a readily handy explanation does not automatically mean god did it. To fill in gaps of knowledge with god is intellectually lazy.

I am calling false positive on the initial AIDS test.

The 200+ Skin virus leasions (Which is the reason I went to the Doctor in the first place) says otherwise.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http...CEQQrQMwDA

Pic number 3 of 6. This is not me but it is what I had all over both arms.

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That is because science is taught and framed in such a way as to dismiss anything God does that science can not explain. Or have you forgotten our discussion on Aids in this last week?

Why should science acknowledge the activities of a God who, by all indications, doesn't exist?

Again my point is 'science' has stacked the deck to design "indicators" to only point to the conclusion that God does not exist.

Science doesn't dismiss the presence of God. It refuses to acknowledge the presence of God because nobody has demonstrated this presence to be true.

Not true. God provides 'proof' daily. It's just what God provides is dismissed by people 'who know better.'

It's like telling someone to provide proof of the color yellow on an object with out being able to verify color by sight. If an object is yellow then it is yellow even if you can not provide any 'proof' out side the color spectrum

[pineapplebunnybounce]

@Drich, I rather doubt your story. At least, the way you understood what happened. I've worked in a hospital doing clinical research and if there's anything that we love to document, it's anomalies. So your doctor would've documented it if he truly couldn't figure out what happened, then again, plenty of doctors these days don't have good training on the research part of science, depending on where they do their med school. So. Anyway.

I don't see why we have to say god did it every time we don't understand something. Just admit that you don't know what happened, and stop right there. You can do a case study and look at what probably happened, but to posit the existence of a supernatural being who cured you is too far fetched to qualify as a probability.

[Drich]

@Drich, I rather doubt your story. At least, the way you understood what happened. I've worked in a hospital doing clinical research and if there's anything that we love to document, it's anomalies. So your doctor would've documented it if he truly couldn't figure out what happened, then again, plenty of doctors these days don't have good training on the research part of science, depending on where they do their med school. So. Anyway.

I don't see why we have to say god did it every time we don't understand something. Just admit that you don't know what happened, and stop right there. You can do a case study and look at what probably happened, but to posit the existence of a supernatural being who cured you is too far fetched to qualify as a probability.

I've posted what doctors and researchers call my condition already. Appearently I am an 'elite comtroller.' Now that it is recognized by science , your doctor friends would sell their souls to poke and prod someone who went through my situation before their very eyes. 20 years ago there was no cure for Aids. The only cure was a "false positive" as you people have pointed out so many times already. (Even after I went thought the trouble of trying to educate you all.)

Just In case you missed it:http://atheistforums.org/thread-20455-page-5.html
Post 57 I think. It is the seventh one down.

Bottom line is 'science' doesn't know why this happens (and leaves without a trace otherwise they could potentially come up with a vaccine) but at least now (if they are upto date anyway) will acknowledge the condition. Even if they will not give God his due.

Why do I know God cured me, and the rest of the elite controller group? For the same reason there are no 'atheist' in fox holes (at least while being shot at.) when one is face with the very real threat of death, even if you have doubts, one tends to believe enough to ask for his or her own life whether they will admit it or not.

If you do not think you would be so inclined to ask God for your life, then I ASK that you allow me to pray that God place you in a prolonged situation where you fret for your life every minute of every waking hour, for several days/weeks/months or even years if need be and lets see what happens. (Ill help you get into the situation, but it is on you to work it out with God on whether or not you get back out.)

[pineapplebunnybounce]

Go ahead Drich, pray to god that I have a terrible life. Go right ahead. Prove my point and demonstrate your Christian love at the same time. Win/win.

[Silver]

If you do not think you would be so inclined to ask God for your life, then I ASK that you allow me to pray that God place you in a prolonged situation where you fret for your life every minute of every waking hour, for several days/weeks/months or even years if need be and lets see what happens. (Ill help you get into the situation, but it is on you to work it out with God on whether or not you get back out.)

Atheists have bad days, bad weeks, bad months, bad years, too, and the trouble we experience as a part of life does not make us run to your magical sky daddy. Rather than resort to prayer that does not work, we actually attempt to better our lives proactively.

[Ryantology]

Again my point is 'science' has stacked the deck to design "indicators" to only point to the conclusion that God does not exist.

I would say that is more the result of science proving that so many supernatural events attributed to God, from disease to weather, aren't actually supernatural at all, so theists have decided to keep God from being further embarrassed by science by moving the goalposts to a point intentionally beyond what science can detect. Or, to put it more accurately, theists have redefined God so that he's more obviously just a deluded fantasy.

Not true. God provides 'proof' daily. It's just what God provides is dismissed by people 'who know better.'

Theists provide 'proof' daily, 'proof' which is entirely subjective and can only be accepted as proof if you first accept the premise, without proof. Nor can they prove that their God actually exists to provide any proof of its own existence.

What really happens is that theists insist that proof can only be found if you want to find it, unaware or not caring that this is something 'people who know better' dismiss as confirmation bias.

It's like telling someone to provide proof of the color yellow on an object with out being able to verify color by sight. If an object is yellow then it is yellow even if you can not provide any 'proof' out side the color spectrum

To offer a more accurate comparison, it's like telling someone to provide proof of the color Jesurple, and that person responds by saying that Jesurple is definitely a real color but you have to have faith that it exists before you can actually see it.

[Drich]

If you do not think you would be so inclined to ask God for your life, then I ASK that you allow me to pray that God place you in a prolonged situation where you fret for your life every minute of every waking hour, for several days/weeks/months or even years if need be and lets see what happens. (Ill help you get into the situation, but it is on you to work it out with God on whether or not you get back out.)

Atheists have bad days, bad weeks, bad months, bad years, too, and the trouble we experience as a part of life does not make us run to your magical sky daddy. Rather than resort to prayer that does not work, we actually attempt to better our lives proactively.

No Spicoli, you don't get it.

I am saying if you do not think you would ask God to spare your life when face with a terrible disease like aids, I am asking you to allow me to pray that God strike you down with aids, cancer or whatever it takes for you to beg and or grovel for your life. Why? To simply prove the point that there are no atheist when you are staring down the barrel of eternity. That is how I know those 'elite controllers' were healed. Because I know they prayed. Even the ones who thought they were atheist.

I'm not just talking about " a bad day, week, month, or even year." Again the offer is if you think you can, you will stand firm in your beliefs and not beg for mercy/life just say the word, and I will ask God to infect you with something or place you in a situation where you can find out for yourself.

gnōthi seauton.
I am giving you an oppertunity to "know thyself."

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Go ahead Drich, pray to god that I have a terrible life. Go right ahead. Prove my point and demonstrate your Christian love at the same time. Win/win.

Not a terrible life. A deadly disease. Or to be put in a life and death situation. There is nothing I am offering to do for you that I have not already prayed for myself. In that, a long time ago I asked God to do whatever it took, even if it meant my life, to help me see and understand Him. I now offer that on your behalf for you. Not as a curse but an opportunity to not only know yourself, but in the journey to get to know God.

For he who cherishes his life above all else will loose it. And he who forsakes his life for Christ will gain eternal life.

Just know I generally get what I pray for.