Internet Smackdown Aftermath

[gall]

That's idiotic. Fundamentalist Atheist? I'm also a fundamentalist in not believing in Santa Claus. As though we have to find some sort of middle ground between us and them. The phrase New Atheists also drives me crazy. The only thing new about them is that they actually publicly speak about what they believe. OMG how outrageous! Atheists shouldn't be afforded the same opportunity as say, everyone else.

We're not supposed to believe anything as we're not meant to be following a religion or a dogma. We're just not accepting what all these different religions are trying to sell to us. It's a neutral position and we aren't trying to offer something to anyone. If you do anything else or try to proselytize atheism it may as well be a religion at that point.

Agree


atheism is not a belief system, it is a challenge to belief systems that require you accept without logical or scientific explanation that which is not provable. Claims can be made all day and I never once made any claim of belief in anything but ones lack of proof in their own claim of belief.

I will gladly believe in god if he presents himself in the "flesh" to me and answers for actions that no sentient being should accept as "ok"... short of that I don't see how any religious person will convince an actual atheist...not the fundie ones that are being referred to in this thread.

I don't want to fight for a person to believe others are wrong. I want to discuss and debate that which is apparent and not so apparent based on what we can see, touch, taste, smell, etc... things we can use experiment and argument to determine. NOT blindness in faithful duties to imaginary gods.

[Zone]

Thats the thing, those are core teachings of Christianity and every domination teaches that atheists go to hell and that jesus will return in great glory except the mormans and jw's.
If you do not believe those things then your not a Christian because that is what the Bible teaches.
Now wtf is a fundamentalist new atheist?

Only a very small minority of educated/sophisticated Christians believe in a literal place of torment where you're burned with real fire these days. Now it's a "separation from God" and more some kind of voluntary state of being where you want nothing to do with God who is everything that is good, serine and holy that you long for deep within your heart somewhere. They have upped their game quite a bit since the middle ages. Even during the middle ages some Christians held this more mystical view.

[CapnAwesome]

We're not supposed to believe anything as we're not meant to be following a religion or a dogma. We're just not accepting what all these different religions are trying to sell to us. It's a neutral position and we aren't trying to offer something to anyone. If you do anything else or try to proselytize atheism it may as well be a religion at that point.

Thanks for telling me what I'm supposed to do. I'll make sure to write that down, in case I run out of something to wipe my ass with.

It may as well be a religion! That is without a holy text, clergy, temples, dogma, tithing or any other single characteristic of a religion. What you are doing are giving the religious carte blache to spew their bullshit (hey it's what they are supposed to do) but if an Atheist talks about what they believe in any manner other than one of a meek submissive pussy then he is being too much like the enemy. Even though what the original poster was showing was a complaint about stuff he voluntarily read online. Let me know the day an Atheist shows up at your door preaching.

[Zone]

Thanks for telling me what I'm supposed to do. I'll make sure to write that down, in case I run out of something to wipe my ass with.

It would be easier to print it.

It may as well be a religion! That is without a holy text, clergy, temples, dogma, tithing or any other single characteristic of a religion.

There is a danger that you will end up with those things if you're not too careful. There are atheist churches being set up now which I think is defeating the whole idea. And these celebrity atheists are becoming like the new authoritative figures/clergy and certain books like revered texts.

What you are doing are giving the religious carte blache to spew their bullshit (hey it's what they are supposed to do) but if an Atheist talks about what they believe in any manner other than one of a meek submissive pussy then he is being too much like the enemy.

They're free to spew any amount of bullshit they like as long as they're not insulting/harming anyone in the process. If someone wants to go on about the wonders of astrology, homeopathy, psychic mediums, the Lost City of Atlantis, the Pyramids being built by ancient aliens, UFOs, crystal skulls or whatever else then they can. We're not the thought and reason police.

Even though what the original poster was showing was a complaint about stuff he voluntarily read online. Let me know the day an Atheist shows up at your door preaching.

Only Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons really do that. With Mormons it tends to be more out on the street when ask you things like "What you think happens after this life?". But atheists have nothing at all to preach to anyone, that's the idea of it. You can still have your own opinions that have nothing particularly to do with atheism which is just a lack of belief in any God, gods or a religion.

[Captain Colostomy]

OK...

I get not jumping in on a private religious group when not invited. Yeah, let'm say what they will...free country, blah blah. However, in a public access forum, etc.? Peoples is peoples. For every retarded ass comment made by a theist, who is to stop someone who argued to the contrary?

A 'let them have their delusions, it's not for us to worry about' position is not ideal. Left unchecked, it can be seen as tacit approval that their tripe is the only valid view around.

[Zone]

If they want have a debate an Internet forum you can give them the full works as long as it's not done aggressively or with insults thrown at them, unless they're asking for it.

There are things religious people get up to that does affect other people who wouldn't otherwise want to be affected, the sale of unlabeled halal meat for instance, Sharia Law through your back door.

[CapnAwesome]

There is a danger that you will end up with those things if you're not too careful. There are atheist churches being set up now which I think is defeating the whole idea. And these celebrity atheists are becoming like the new authoritative figures/clergy and certain books like revered texts.

They're free to spew any amount of bullshit they like as long as they're not insulting/harming anyone in the process. If someone wants to go on about the wonders of astrology, homeopathy, psychic mediums, the Lost City of Atlantis, the Pyramids being built by ancient aliens, UFOs, crystal skulls or whatever else then they can. We're not the thought and reason police.

I'm isolating these two quotes as one, mostly because I find the response to each line a little tedious and hard to read, and also because I don't really disagree with anything else you said. In fact I don't disagree really with these statements either. If there were some sort of organized Atheist thought, Atheist clergy etc, I would be totally against it. I don't see any of that happening. You can tell from two seconds on these boards that Atheists can't agree on anything for long enough to become organized. I think a fear of that happening is misguided. If it did I highly suspect the greatest opposition to it would come from Atheists.

I think the second ironic thing is that you say the religious can say whatever they like as long as it's not harming anyone. (Duh) However you don't extend the same courtesy to Atheists. A lot of 'Atheist's can't say this or you are like this' 'we aren't supposed to believe this' in your posts. It seems (from the limited information that I have) that you have the same double standard that Christians have towards the unreligious. That they are supposed to shut up. That the religious are the only ones allowed to publicly address their beliefs. I find that an offensive belief. One that would delegate me to a second class citizen. Whether or not my position is neutral doesn't mean that you somehow aren't allowed to vehemently express my other opinions regarding religion.

[Zone]

A lot of 'Atheist's can't say this or you are like this' 'we aren't supposed to believe this' in your posts. It seems (from the limited information that I have) that you have the same double standard that Christians have towards the unreligious. That they are supposed to shut up. That the religious are the only ones allowed to publicly address their beliefs. I find that an offensive belief. One that would delegate me to a second class citizen. Whether or not my position is neutral doesn't mean that you somehow aren't allowed to vehemently express my other opinions regarding religion.

It's not really a double standard if we're the ones trying to sell, promote or proselytize a new religion for people to believe in. We don't have a duty to de-convert anyone to the wonders of atheism and it's not something that is for everyone. The human mind doesn't tend to deal that well with uncertainty and the unknown, people like to have something they can base their lives around with other people who believe the same thing. The problem is many atheists will tend turn atheism into something like this when it shouldn't really be. This is the kind of thing Dawkins, Harris and Dennett are doing and that's giving religious the wrong idea of what atheism is supposed to (not) be.

[Captain Colostomy]

If they want have a debate an Internet forum you can give them the full works as long as it's not done aggressively or with insults thrown at them, unless they're asking for it.

Um...that's not your decision to make. I'm not against a civil discussion, mind you, but I can make my own mind up on when insults, etc., are warranted.
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[Zone]

Um...that's not your decision to make. I'm not against a civil discussion, mind you, but I can make my own mind up on when insults, etc., are warranted.

It's just my opinion of what I think atheists ought to be doing ideally but a lot of them don't so I think they're doing it all completely wrong and giving atheism a bad name in the process. Even when it's against religious fundamentalism it's like pouring fuel onto a fire. It's probably why 40% of Americans don't accept evolution whenever certain atheists say "Haha! evolution proves there is no God!" which isn't particularly true but they react to that and reject it altogether.