How to be a strong atheist in a rather straightforward way

[Edwardo Piet]

I mean whether your belief is 'real' as in existent or not...

I'm talking about whether it's delusional or not. A placebo may make one feel good, but it is delusive.

EvF

[tackattack]

beliefs aren't existant unto themselves no. The object of those beliefs can in fact be "real". It's deliniating your threshold for real vs make-believe as your threshold for rational and irrational. No my belief isn't delusional because it's observations are based from without instead of only self-introspective. You can pretend to be a Christian and equate that to a placebo for the spirit and when you actually experience the real thing you realize that there is no comparison between the placebo of feigned belief and being truly touched by the spirit.

[TruthWorthy]

beliefs aren't existant unto themselves no. The object of those beliefs can in fact be "real". It's deliniating your threshold for real vs make-believe as your threshold for rational and irrational.

Are you saying that beliefs themselves do not exist - only that those things believed in may!?
I disagree. Beliefs exist in the mind as a way of cherishing thoughts and ideas.

No my belief isn't delusional because it's observations are based from without instead of only self-introspective. You can pretend to be a Christian and equate that to a placebo for the spirit and when you actually experience the real thing you realize that there is no comparison between the placebo of feigned belief and being truly touched by the spirit.

Observation is subject to interpretation. Science attempts to get beyond interpretation by controlling variables and isolating causation, etc. I would love to hear how you seen signs of god without subjecting your opinion on those things.

[tackattack]

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beliefs aren't existant unto themselves no. The object of those beliefs can in fact be "real". It's deliniating your threshold for real vs make-believe as your threshold for rational and irrational.

Are you saying that beliefs themselves do not exist - only that those things believed in may!?
I disagree. Beliefs exist in the mind as a way of cherishing thoughts and ideas.

No my belief isn't delusional because it's observations are based from without instead of only self-introspective. You can pretend to be a Christian and equate that to a placebo for the spirit and when you actually experience the real thing you realize that there is no comparison between the placebo of feigned belief and being truly touched by the spirit.

Observation is subject to interpretation. Science attempts to get beyond interpretation by controlling variables and isolating causation, etc. I would love to hear how you seen signs of god without subjecting your opinion on those things.

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1) Anything we percieve, thioughts, God, axioms, delusions and tables and chairs; yes all "exist" in the strictest sense of the word. When exist is used in common communication, especially from strong atheists (ie. God doesn't exist), though it's more of what is tangible and percievable by the 5 senses. I've never had a non-believer, in RL, tell me God only exists as a figment of your imagination, just that he doesn't exist.

2) I don't think I brought science into this, but ok. Controlling variables and isolating causation, hmmm. Well from a fundamentalist Christian perspective, God is the root causation for everything, the other subsequent causes from effects are erroneous. I think it's really pointless though to continue comparing religion and science, they're completely unrelated.

3) Seeing signs of God without my own opinion. Well first of all of it would be based off the assumtion God exists so it's observer biased. So is science though, so as long as it's not an anchoring or confirmation bias then I don't think it's too detrimental to the outcome. I'd start by just living my life doing mundane things that have no relation to my spiritual path like driving to work. I'd be listening to some James Taylor and thinking about my tasks for the day. Let's say that I had a sudden revelation of the spirit now. Well it's a little disconcerting and nerve wracking and definately not anything I'd want while driving, that's unsafe. After I examine my state of mind, I was in no subconscious or conscious need for it. The windows up and there's no chill and I'm by myself. So I'm alone in my car listening to James taylor with work on the brain. On the ride home I'm doing the exact same thing (even the exact song) and no spirit intervention. The next day I change my intent and try and cause the spirit to come... but it doesn't. Then 3 weeks later it happens again just as random.

I think I do a good job of "getting to the bottom of things" within my life and limiting variables that seem erroneous. I'm not saying my interpretation isn't involved in decoding what went on, merely that it seems to me to have no rhyme or reason that's explainable, so why not God?

[TruthWorthy]

I'll tell you what happened to me today and in doing so hopefully give you another perspective on what you experience when the spirit touches you.
Ok, a fairly ordinary day only something significant happened which wasn't upsetting in itself but which brought my mood down enough to promise me a bad day. I decided to do some things (which I normally do) to get my mind off it. So I took the dog for a walk only this time I wasn't thinking about the weight I would potentially lose, or my fitness, instead I was thinking about me (my life, my thoughts on things), basically assessing the way I view shit. I took my dog into a rocky area I normally wouldn't and sat on top of a cliff to enjoy the scenery. Then I finally got to thinking. I didn't have an epiphany or obtain inner peace (the strict sense). I walked the rest of the way to finish the walk home and when I arrived, I had a great feeling. I made a salad sandwich which would blow your head off - so impressive was it that I made some fresh squeezed juice (sitting next to me right now) and my mind isn't at all concerned with this morning.
My interpretation could go in several directions here. I can say that god heard my need to get things out of my mind and rewarded my efforts with happy feelings. or I can admit that the results of my actions were the same as the goal I set out to achieve.

[Edwardo Piet]

@ Tackattack.

By delusion I simply mean a false belief. So I consider your belief in God (and any belief in the supernatural whatsoever) to be delusional.

EvF

[LEDO]

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3) Seeing signs of God without my own opinion. Well first of all of it would be based off the assumtion God exists so it's observer biased. So is science though, so as long as it's not an anchoring or confirmation bias then I don't think it's too detrimental to the outcome. I'd start by just living my life doing mundane things that have no relation to my spiritual path like driving to work. I'd be listening to some James Taylor and thinking about my tasks for the day. Let's say that I had a sudden revelation of the spirit now. Well it's a little disconcerting and nerve wracking and definately not anything I'd want while driving, that's unsafe. After I examine my state of mind, I was in no subconscious or conscious need for it. The windows up and there's no chill and I'm by myself. So I'm alone in my car listening to James taylor with work on the brain. On the ride home I'm doing the exact same thing (even the exact song) and no spirit intervention. The next day I change my intent and try and cause the spirit to come... but it doesn't. Then 3 weeks later it happens again just as random.

Nothing like a good random acid flashback to make one come to Jesus.

[tackattack]

EvF.. ok got it then I'm a cook

Ledo lol.. I can't comment online about any drug use.. but I'm alergic to pot and I don't remember ever using any drugs.

TW. Ok so using your example what about if you did have a definately epiphany and an awkward sense of inner peace. That what I would call a "walk with God" discussing things in your head and "getting them out" That would be an active persuit of the holy spirit in my life. I was reffering to the times when I don't particularly want the spirit. Imagining you're giving a lecture, or in the middle of a book signing or mid pour on a chemistry lab. Now you get a warm tingle that just happens all over your body and uncontrollably smile and pause mid-sentence or put down your test tubes. Then you have an idea to visit that friend whom you hardly speak with and bring over pizza. After you shake it off and finish what you're doing, you give him a call and tell him you're coming over. He says he's busy and it's really not a good time, but you insist. Later you find out how depressed he was and that he was planning on suicide. You talk him into getting help, and have them call you when he's released. Tomorrow go back to your usual day-2-day. That's the kinds of things that can happen all the time. I can't see from physiologically or mentally how this was wanted of subjectively internal. I may be tripin' but, but I'm tripin wit' Jesus then

[TruthWorthy]

I get these tingling sensations sometimes aswell, they're involuntary and accompany some emotion; sometimes when I hear resonance in chords through a singers voice or the tones in the song; sometimes when my mind shifts into a sort of alternate reality when I'm remembering/thinking along certain lines - I get an endorphine rush.

It's the brain's way to reward certain behaviours deemed useful throughout evolution.

[Edwardo Piet]

I have no idea why inner peace should be attributed to the holy spirit. I think there are many ways that one can feel peaceful 'inside'.

EvF