Pauline Letters to the church.

[Brakeman]

The Pauline epistles were letters to the church from Paul telling them what to do on orders from god.

Weren't the church members praying already? Wasn't god already talking to them? Why the need for a stranger's claims of god messages? One can only conclude that the prayers from the church people were going unanswered and they were just talking to themselves during prayer time. Then they were taking at face value the god claims of a crazy person who said that he did hear god's voice.

What else fits?

[Drich]

The Pauline epistles were letters to the church from Paul telling them what to do on orders from god.

Weren't the church members praying already?

Most church member do not pray now. Remember there is a difference between petition and prayer. Paul in one of the letters you mention makes this distinction.

Wasn't god already talking to them?

God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. But so does satan. The only way we know who is speaking for sure is to verify what is said scripturally. Paul's letters were the verification we needed to sift out un-Godly messages.

Why the need for a stranger's claims of god messages?

Because without a standard the 'stanger' you hear maybe the words of God. Meaning if you do not learn to hear or identify God's voice then the message you are accustom to hearing may not be of God.

One can only conclude that the prayers from the church people were going unanswered and they were just talking to themselves during prayer time.

Why must one conclude this?

What else fits?

See my answers above.

[T.J.]

Not much of a Holy Spirit if the epitome of evil can hack it.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The only way we know who is speaking for sure is to verify what is said scripturally.

That seems a bit tricky, give the scriptural verification that God intentionally deludes people. How is one to know whether one is being given bad advice from God or from Satan?

Boru

[Brakeman]

The Pauline epistles were letters to the church from Paul telling them what to do on orders from god.

Weren't the church members praying already?

Most church member do not pray now. ..

Citation needed! When I ask christians, they universally claim to pray and not just petition. (Of course they could be lying )

Wasn't god already talking to them?

God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. But so does satan. The only way we know who is speaking for sure is to verify what is said scripturally. Paul's letters were the verification we needed to sift out un-Godly messages.

Good grief! The church members would have had to figure out the truth of the message either way as they would know that there was nothing special about this author claiming to be Paul that Satan couldn't counterfeit.
Church members don't ignore the responses of god in their prayers until a wandering prophet comes along now do they??

Why the need for a stranger's claims of god messages?

Because without a standard the 'stanger' you hear maybe the words of God. Meaning if you do not learn to hear or identify God's voice then the message you are accustom to hearing may not be of God.

So how was this author who claimed to be Paul any different? Why would a congregation assume that some guy claiming to be Paul was the real deal? If they knew they couldn't trust themselves to verify the words of the holy spirit directly, how does adding a middleman help?

One can only conclude that the prayers from the church people were going unanswered and they were just talking to themselves during prayer time.

Why must one conclude this?

Because your answers are illogical and my default conclusion is sound.

What else fits?

See my answers above.

I saw them, and they did not answer the question well at all.

[Drich]

Not much of a Holy Spirit if the epitome of evil can hack it.

Without a standard to compare it to, how can we know it has been 'hacked?' Or better yet how do can we know we haven't been fooled into accepting evil as the Holy Spirit?

---

The only way we know who is speaking for sure is to verify what is said scripturally.

That seems a bit tricky, give the scriptural verification that God intentionally deludes people. How is one to know whether one is being given bad advice from God or from Satan?

Boru

Again that is what the bible is for. To help one to discern God's word/Expressed will from the expressed will/word of any other source.

[T.J.]

Not much of a Holy Spirit if the epitome of evil can hack it.

Without a standard to compare it to, how can we know it has been 'hacked?' Or better yet how do can we know we haven't been fooled into accepting evil as the Holy Spirit?

God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. But so does satan.

Your words.

How can evil be Holy?

[freedomfromforum]

God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. But so does satan.

You will HAVE to show where the bible says that satan speaks through the holy spirit. Otherwise, your credibility will be more suspect than usual. Please consider the following questions:

From where do you derive the notion that satan does this?
Did god tell you?
How do you know it wasn't satan?
Did god tell you that?
How can you be sure it was god?
Did you hear it straight from god?
Do you see how this circular thing goes?
Can you explain how satan speaks to the mind of a man?
Can you explain how to discern the difference?

"According with scriptures" won't do because all throughout the bible god calls satan a deceiver, yet the devil never told one lie throughout scripture. God, on the other hand tells people to lie, kill, deceive and so on for most of the book.

Do you care to respond to my questions?

[Drich]

Citation needed! When I ask christians, they universally claim to pray and not just petition. (Of course they could be lying )

..Or as in your case (per our discussion on petition and prayer) honestly not know the difference between the two.

Good grief! The church members would have had to figure out the truth of the message either way as they would know that there was nothing special about this author claiming to be Paul that Satan couldn't counterfeit.
Church members don't ignore the responses of god in their prayers until a wandering prophet comes along now do they??

God is not the only one who's business is to answer 'prayers.' Just because you get a petition/wish granted Does not mean it was granted by God. Satan 'grants wishes' to derail. That is why it is so dangerous to seek for 'signs and wonders' as your 'proof' of God. Ex: God if your real do this:________... Or God if your real let me have this girls as my GF, and I will do whatever...

Without the letters paul wrote to help keep those wanting to worship God centered, it is far too easy for us to worship the genie who grants wishes rather than the God who would have us endure suffering and pain if that is what it took for us to truly follow Him.

So how was this author who claimed to be Paul any different? Why would a congregation assume that some guy claiming to be Paul was the real deal? If they knew they couldn't trust themselves to verify the words of the holy spirit directly, how does adding a middleman help?

'We' are only responsiable for what we have been Given. Christ makes this proclaimation in the scriptures apart from any of Paul's works. This means despite whether Paul is/was everything he said he was or not, we are only responsiable for what is written in the bible.

Because your answers are illogical and my default conclusion is sound.

then please use your 'logic' to demonstrate your position and defeat my arguments point by point, as I am doing with your arguments.

I saw them, and they did not answer the question well at all.

You are confusing the completeness of my answers with your desire to accept them.

The problem: you have invisioned Christianity to be a certain way: "A,B,C." My answers tell you Christianity is actually "!,@,#." To accept my answers you must be willing to admit that your view of Christianity is wrong. If you do this then you will have to honestly re-evaluate your whole understanding of Christianity. Because you do not want to do this you move to outright dismiss everything I said without going line by line and showing that the version of Christianity I am representing is in error. Just because you are lazy and can not or simply don't want to refute my points does not make my answers any less valid. So again your unwillingness to accept what I have said does not invalidate the content of my answers.

---

Without a standard to compare it to, how can we know it has been 'hacked?' Or better yet how do can we know we haven't been fooled into accepting evil as the Holy Spirit?

God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. But so does satan.

Your words.

How can evil be Holy?

Can't evil just pretend to be Holy? You are aware that priests have done all manor of unholy things right?

---

God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. But so does satan.

You will HAVE to show where the bible says that satan speaks through the holy spirit. Otherwise, your credibility will be more suspect than usual. Please consider the following questions:

From where do you derive the notion that satan does this?
Did god tell you?
How do you know it wasn't satan?
Did god tell you that?
How can you be sure it was god?
Did you hear it straight from god?
Do you see how this circular thing goes?
Can you explain how satan speaks to the mind of a man?
Can you explain how to discern the difference?

"According with scriptures" won't do because all throughout the bible god calls satan a deceiver, yet the devil never told one lie throughout scripture. God, on the other hand tells people to lie, kill, deceive and so on for most of the book.

Do you care to respond to my questions?

Ah, I see the point of confusion now. Satan does not speak through the Holy Spirit. Satan sometimes pretends to be the Holy Spirit.

As in the angels who gave Mo-ham the Koran and the angel who gave joseph Smith the book of Mormon.

[freedomfromforum]

Satan does not speak through the Holy Spirit. Satan sometimes pretends to be the Holy Spirit.

As in the angels who gave Mo-ham the Koran and the angel who gave joseph Smith the book of Mormon.

A) By what means (through which medium) does satan mimic the holy spirit?

B) Do you have evidence that satan deluded your two aforementioned 'prophets'?