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RE: And Hells come back to haunt me
March 7, 2014 at 2:22 am
(March 6, 2014 at 11:18 am)Tonus Wrote: (March 4, 2014 at 2:40 am)snowtracks Wrote: pride took over: "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 14'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'
and it plays out even though he knows what is written as to the ending. pride continues - - - he believes he has an ace up his sleeve and he will rewrite the ending...."pride comes before a fall". The question remains-- what do Satan and the demons know about god that they would take such a course?
Maybe they are taking a principled stance against a being who would create them with the ability to manifest pride. Maybe god did that on purpose, for his own amusement? Perhaps god really is so insecure that he needs that occasional pat on the back, so he engineers a situation where he gets to play the hero and people are awestruck at how cool he is. It would explain a lot of things. The fall of man and the intricate plan to redeem mankind that could have been made completely unnecessary with three words, for example.
Satan and the angels live with self pride as their guide not the principles of God. How is it you can justify what you said of a being that is omniscient, omnipresent and all powerful, your ideas go against any logical thoughts of a being with those attributes.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: And Hells come back to haunt me
March 7, 2014 at 3:21 am
(March 7, 2014 at 2:22 am)Godschild Wrote: your ideas go against any logical thoughts of a being with those attributes.
GC
Hit the nail on the head. Those attributes don't depend on logical thoughts. Nothing about faith in such a deity does.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: And Hells come back to haunt me
March 7, 2014 at 6:40 am
(March 7, 2014 at 2:22 am)Godschild Wrote: Satan and the angels live with self pride as their guide not the principles of God. How is it you can justify what you said of a being that is omniscient, omnipresent and all powerful, your ideas go against any logical thoughts of a being with those attributes. I am figuring that such a being could not possibly inspire rebellion based on something as simple as pride. How could an angel feel such pride that he would turn against his own heavenly creator who displayed such qualities as god is said to have? How could a third of his own heavenly children be so unimpressed by god that they thought Satan was the better alternative?
We can feel jealousy of other people, but it's in large part because even the most impressive people can show character flaws. God is supposed to be more than just all-knowing/present/powerful. He personifies wisdom, and love, and mercy, and generosity, and anything and everything good. What would drive a person to be resentful? Where would Satan have learned such an emotion, surrounded by god and god's closest creation?
I think the idea that such creatures would desert that god en masse is much more illogical than the thought that the god in question is actually an egomaniac. Or, even more likely, just a character in a book.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: And Hells come back to haunt me
March 7, 2014 at 8:59 am
I thougth to point out that prior to the rebellion of Lucifer, God's justice had no need to ever be displayed, therefore, the devil apparently thought Him to be a pushover.
Lucifer was blinded by his own beauty and was perfect until evil was within him. He made an evil decision.
He was the music minister of Heaven.
Now you know why the music industry has a obvious satanic stream within it.
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RE: And Hells come back to haunt me
March 7, 2014 at 11:17 am
(March 7, 2014 at 8:59 am)professor Wrote: I thougth to point out that prior to the rebellion of Lucifer, God's justice had no need to ever be displayed, therefore, the devil apparently thought Him to be a pushover. That's the plot to every '80s action film.
"They thought he was weak. They made fun of his ponytail and fake Brooklyn accent. They thought he was a pushover. They thought wrong. Steven Seagal is... GOD."
Then again, is that the only thing that was keeping the angels in check? The thought that god had enough muscle to put them down if they got out of line? Didn't god radiate love and compassion and kindness and wisdom and all of these good things? Or was he aloof and angry and boastful all the time, and the angels simply picked up on it, the way any child will mimic the behavior of his parents, whether good or bad? Were the angels naturally aggressive, and needed to be reminded now and then that god was not someone to mess with?
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: And Hells come back to haunt me
March 7, 2014 at 11:23 am
(March 7, 2014 at 3:21 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: (March 7, 2014 at 2:22 am)Godschild Wrote: your ideas go against any logical thoughts of a being with those attributes.
GC
Hit the nail on the head. Those attributes don't depend on logical thoughts. Nothing about faith in such a deity does.
Or hit the nail on the hands and feet...
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RE: And Hells come back to haunt me
March 24, 2014 at 2:43 am
(March 7, 2014 at 6:40 am)Tonus Wrote: (March 7, 2014 at 2:22 am)Godschild Wrote: Satan and the angels live with self pride as their guide not the principles of God. How is it you can justify what you said of a being that is omniscient, omnipresent and all powerful, your ideas go against any logical thoughts of a being with those attributes. I am figuring that such a being could not possibly inspire rebellion based on something as simple as pride. How could an angel feel such pride that he would turn against his own heavenly creator who displayed such qualities as god is said to have? How could a third of his own heavenly children be so unimpressed by god that they thought Satan was the better alternative?
We can feel jealousy of other people, but it's in large part because even the most impressive people can show character flaws. God is supposed to be more than just all-knowing/present/powerful. He personifies wisdom, and love, and mercy, and generosity, and anything and everything good. What would drive a person to be resentful? Where would Satan have learned such an emotion, surrounded by god and god's closest creation?
I think the idea that such creatures would desert that god en masse is much more illogical than the thought that the god in question is actually an egomaniac. Or, even more likely, just a character in a book.
power struggle, happens all the time that the subordinate wants to be boss.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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RE: And Hells come back to haunt me
March 24, 2014 at 2:46 am
snow what are you talking about?
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And Hells come back to haunt me
March 24, 2014 at 3:08 am
(This post was last modified: March 24, 2014 at 3:11 am by Rampant.A.I..)
(March 7, 2014 at 8:59 am)professor Wrote: I thougth to point out that prior to the rebellion of Lucifer, God's justice had no need to ever be displayed, therefore, the devil apparently thought Him to be a pushover.
Lucifer was blinded by his own beauty and was perfect until evil was within him. He made an evil decision.
He was the music minister of Heaven.
Now you know why the music industry has a obvious satanic stream within it.
Church hymns too:
May this flame be found still burning
by the Morning Star:
the one Morning Star who never sets,
Christ your Son,
who, coming back from death's domain,
has shed his peaceful light on humanity,
and lives and reigns for ever and ever.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exsultet
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RE: And Hells come back to haunt me
March 24, 2014 at 2:20 pm
(March 24, 2014 at 2:43 am)snowtracks Wrote: power struggle, happens all the time that the subordinate wants to be boss. Ever notice that the boss always comically overreacts in the stories?
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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