Death Penalty

[kılıç_mehmet]

Yes. You're a damned barbarian. You lament over lost forms of execution.

I do, for they did the job, didn't they? And quite effectively so, sent a message to others.

Can you be a bigger idiot? How in the bloody hell does taking a moral stand against state mandated murder as a form of punishment equate to barbarism? Do you understand what 'barbarism' means?

And what good is there with the state feeding murderers with the money of the taxpayers, until they expire?
Why should the family of a victim pay for this?
Pay to let the killer of a loved one dine at their expense?

What does that solve?

Did it bring back the people he slaughtered? No.

Did it fill the hole of loss in the victim's family's lives? No.

If anything, execution merely fulfills the purpose of bringing temporary pleasure to those who were indirectly wronged by the murderer. Oh, and to sick little fucks like you.

Justice demands life for life.
There is a scale, and it must remain in balance. If the perpetrator lives, the scale is not n balance. He/she has taken life, but paid nothing in return.

He, and any other killer detained by the government, should have never been executed in the first place. So yes, I am angry that they're bringing back the chair. Obviously.

You do not know the meaning of justice.
You are nothing more than a mere fool, that clinges to the arguments of other fools. I just hope that no such thing happens to you, and you have a loved one brutally murdered by another, as to later on lament on the fact that he/she still lives another day, while the victim cries out from the earth demaning blood for blood.

[Chad32]

Removing a horrible person from the world is keeping that person from doing more damage. Killing someone doesn't make you "just like them" or whatever. Motivation is everything.

So to remove someone from society you must kill them? Ever heard of prison, mate?

Yes. I've also heard of people breaking out of proison, or released when they really shouldn't be. That doesn't really remove them. That just put them in a cage with other people, and a chance that they could get out again.

I'm all for rehabilitation, and I realize that while we are improving, there are still some innocent people that slip through the cracks. I still believe there are some people that need to be literally removed from this world.

[Ryantology]

Only a barbarian can defend a man who has murdered his fellow being.

The man drooling at the thought of more spilled blood calls another man a barbarian for not wanting more blood spilled.

[Bob Kelso]

Yes. You're a damned barbarian. You lament over lost forms of execution.

I do, for they did the job, didn't they? And quite effectively so, sent a message to others.

Like I said, you're a fucking barbarian.

And what good is there with the state feeding murderers with the money of the taxpayers, until they expire?
Why should the family of a victim pay for this?
Pay to let the killer of a loved one dine at their expense?

So because you don't like the thought of them living on taxpayer money you want to kill them? You're disgusting.
Let's remember the purpose of prison, it separates the criminals from the rest of society as a form of protection and punishment. It requires money to do this.

Justice demands life for life.
There is a scale, and it must remain in balance. If the perpetrator lives, the scale is not n balance. He/she has taken life, but paid nothing in return.

So you adhere to lex talionis justice, great, life imprisonment fills that "life for a life" bullshit too. The prisoner loses their freedom, sure, people like you don't feel like that's enough but that's because you're small minded and bloodthirsty.

You do not know the meaning of justice.

No, I know what justice means, I just despise your interpretation of what justice demands.

You are nothing more than a mere fool, that clinges to the arguments of other fools.

Wrong again, my arguments have been my own. The fact that my arguments walk in step with others who hold the same opinion of the death penalty is of no consequence, my words and thoughts are my own.

I just hope that no such thing happens to you, and you have a loved one brutally murdered by another, as to later on lament on the fact that he/she still lives another day, while the victim cries out from the earth demaning blood for blood.

Is that really the best you have? Pathetic.

Also, I'm not sure how I would react in such a situation, though I can assume that I wouldn't be of sound mind to make a rational or moral decision. That's one of the reasons why the law isn't left to the victim's families. Oh, and if I do have a loved one that's killed by some psychopath they won't be demanding anything, they'll be fucking dead.

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Edit: Typos

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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The whole secret of being a criminal is to know where to commit your crimes with the least risk to yourself. So if you kill someone in a State that has the death penalty you might get it if you get convicted. That Norwegian who killed all of those people a few years ago in Norway only got 20 some years in a nice prison. He would have been beheaded in Saudi Arabia. He would have been facing the death penalty in Texas. He would have gotten life in Minnesota.

Think before you act.

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And less than a decade ago, if he had done this in Nebraska and gotten the DP for it, the mandatory mode would have been the electric chair. I realize all jurisdictions in the USA default to lethal injection, now, but it wasn't always that way. I always found that weird about the USA DP.

The criminal justice system is controlled by psychopaths. They take great delight in having control over others. However, someone has to do society's dirty work and it might as well be them.

The bottom line is that the typical criminal is stupid, almost to the point of absurdity. Most people are in prison because they did stupid things and were easily caught and convicted. In America today over 70 million people have criminal records of some type. The interesting thing is that even in States with the death penalty only a handful of people actually get the death penalty if they simply kill someone. The death penalty is imposed if the killer does another act against the victim, such as robbing or raping her. A clean kill simply gets a long prison term.

The problem with the death penalty is that it's mainly racist and is sought primarily against minorities. The average white killer very seldom gets the death penalty unless he went far over the line. There is no equal justice in America.

Having said all of that I lean toward the death penalty as a concept. Some people commit horrendous crimes and they should have to pay with their own lives. In the Bible Cain wasn't punished at all for killing his brother Abel and concealing his body. Jesus got crucified for being a pain in the butt for the local bigwigs. John the Baptist lost his head because he pissed off the king. There was no equal justice in the Bible either.

As far as the method of execution is concerned if I was being executed a bullet in the back of my head would be the preferred method. But if you're executing a person does the method really matter? In the Babylonian Talmud the Jews boast about how they killed Jesus using five different methods. The State should just use one and stop whining about it even if it's burning the convicted person alive at the stake. Or they could give the condemned person enough alcohol so that he could drink himself to death.

[MindForgedManacle]

The whole secret of being a criminal is to know where to commit your crimes with the least risk to yourself. So if you kill someone in a State that has the death penalty you might get it if you get convicted. That Norwegian who killed all of those people a few years ago in Norway only got 20 some years in a nice prison. He would have been beheaded in Saudi Arabia. He would have been facing the death penalty in Texas. He would have gotten life in Minnesota.

Think before you act.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that people (much less the average criminal) is fully or mostly rational. And your own example is obviously flawed. That guy was, as you said, a Norwegian in Norway. I highly doubt he thought particularly much of the fact about Norway's lack of the death penalty, so much as he chose to kill in a place more convenient (i.e it's where he already lived). The massive amount of gun deaths and gun related injuries in the USA would seem to demonstrate that, seeing as people tend to have an idea of who and where they want to kill. If they were taking the laws into account uniformly, the crime statistics relating to guns would tend to be massively higher in all states without the death penalty.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

I was trying to point out the disparity in punishment between different places for the same crime. Norway basically doesn't care how many people a person kills. They will not execute him nor will they give him life in prison. Other places are a lot more severe. So if a person just had to kill someone the place to do it would be Norway or at least in a State where the killer won't get the DP. However, if the killer is foolish to do it in a place such as in certain counties in Texas he should expect to get the DP. Certain counties are more likely to mete out the DP verdict than others in the same State. Location matters!

[kılıç_mehmet]

Only a barbarian can defend a man who has murdered his fellow being.

The man drooling at the thought of more spilled blood calls another man a barbarian for not wanting more blood spilled.

Absolutely, if its the blood of someone who is guilty of a crime that merits the ultimate price, life.
Besides, execution is not just for murderers. I believe that traitors should be given this sentence as well.

So because you don't like the thought of them living on taxpayer money you want to kill them? You're disgusting.
Let's remember the purpose of prison, it separates the criminals from the rest of society as a form of protection and punishment. It requires money to do this.

Right now, an enemy of my people dines on our money in a prison because we've abolished the death penalty. Yet still he speaks through the bars his poison, ungrateful, that he receives his daily bread through the money earned by our sweat.

I personally don't believe prisons ought to be ways of punishing people. Depriving a man of his freedom means nothing. At the same time, it does not serve to rehabilitate lesser criminals such as thieves.
If society does not want them, what purpose does it serve to keep them alive? Lesser criminals whose crimes are not great enough should receive their punishment as hard labor in benefit for society.

So you adhere to lex talionis justice, great, life imprisonment fills that "life for a life" bullshit too. The prisoner loses their freedom, sure, people like you don't feel like that's enough but that's because you're small minded and bloodthirsty.

The fact that a prisoner loses freedom, which is untrue, the fact is, a prisoner is effectively free from all responsibilities in life, in regards to their sustenance, in regards to their housing and everything else.

No, I know what justice means, I just despise your interpretation of what justice demands.

Justice demands blood for blood.
Not loss of freedom for blood. Someone got killed, and the other got free meals, free housing and free healthcare for life.

Wrong again, my arguments have been my own. The fact that my arguments walk in step with others who hold the same opinion of the death penalty is of no consequence, my words and thoughts are my own.

Well, the fact that they come out of your fingertips, does not mean that they are yours.
Our words are never "ours" to begin with. We all have our unspoken references.

Also, I'm not sure how I would react in such a situation, though I can assume that I wouldn't be of sound mind to make a rational or moral decision. That's one of the reasons why the law isn't left to the victim's families. Oh, and if I do have a loved one that's killed by some psychopath they won't be demanding anything, they'll be fucking dead.

By being dead, they demand vengeance.
If a loved one of mine had perished at the hands of another person, and he went to jail, I'd bribe some guy inside to shank him in the showers.

[Bob Kelso]

Absolutely, if its the blood of someone who is guilty of a crime that merits the ultimate price, life.
Besides, execution is not just for murderers. I believe that traitors should be given this sentence as well.

You're a fucking monster (or an excellent troll), and I sincerely hope you never gain any influence with any governmental power.

Right now, an enemy of my people dines on our money in a prison because we've abolished the death penalty. Yet still he speaks through the bars his poison, ungrateful, that he receives his daily bread through the money earned by our sweat.

And his speaking warrants his death in your eyes? You're a deluded psychopath no better than a bloodthirsty tyrant.

I personally don't believe prisons ought to be ways of punishing people. Depriving a man of his freedom means nothing. At the same time, it does not serve to rehabilitate lesser criminals such as thieves.
If society does not want them, what purpose does it serve to keep them alive? Lesser criminals whose crimes are not great enough should receive their punishment as hard labor in benefit for society.

On the point in bold we can partially agree, the rest of it, fuck no.

The fact that a prisoner loses freedom, which is untrue, the fact is, a prisoner is effectively free from all responsibilities in life, in regards to their sustenance, in regards to their housing and everything else.

No one said prison was a perfect system, but it isn't pleasant and it's far better than any of the bloodthirsty shit you've proposed.

Justice demands blood for blood.

No, your interpretation of what justice demands is "blood for blood", you don't get to lay claim to what justice is.

Not loss of freedom for blood. Someone got killed, and the other got free meals, free housing and free healthcare for life.

Life's a bitch and then you die. In other words, life isn't fair, but that doesn't put you or anyone else in a position to make the call as to end a human life that's been incarcerated and not a physical threat to anyone.

Well, the fact that they come out of your fingertips, does not mean that they are yours.
Our words are never "ours" to begin with. We all have our unspoken references.

By that logic then you're, and I quote, "nothing more than a mere fool, that clinges to the arguments of other fools" as well. Kinda sucks when your words are a double edged sword, eh?

By being dead, they demand vengeance.
If a loved one of mine had perished at the hands of another person, and he went to jail, I'd bribe some guy inside to shank him in the showers.

So this solves what exactly?

[rexbeccarox]

Seriously, Mehmet... you're terrifying. That's not a compliment.