Bible prophecies

[Brian37]

[quote='Irrational' pid='690005' dateline='1402977505']
Context.

Did the generation He was speaking to witness the things He was speaking of? (Matt 24:29-34)

Because it makes sense in light of the explanation that Jesus believed the kingdom of God was imminent and that once it came, there would no longer be death.

I don't fully understand what you mean. If you don't mind I'd like a little further explanation here.

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Well simply because the rest of us have a solid grasp on the English language and what the words that are written mean.
What you're saying is like Jesus holding up a speckled green fish and talking about the fish and describing it's color as speckled green and then when he's not around trying to tell everyone that he wasn't talking about the fish he was holding. I mean you can't really think that anyone with an ounce of intelligence is going to swallow this bit of horse shit you're attempting to sell can you???

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[Minimalist]

He's speaking of his fucking gospels which were written much later by people who weren't there.

Only a xtian shitwit would think that was contemporary history.

[Cinjin]

At Brian:

I'm not arguing the legitimacy of what is written in the Bible. I think it's completely made up horse shit concocted by gullible fucktards. My only argument is that the Bible DOESN'T say what that filthy apologists claims it says.

That is all.

[archangle]

sure have.
Predict a flood, fire storm, or large ground shaking event?

how about cover a city in sand back then? That even came true

I tell my kids to predict the end of the world. somebody is going to be right, it mite as well be them.

[orangebox21]

And those are?

As Minimalist said, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John

No, which is exactly why his prediction was a failure.

Jesus said that the 'this generation' that would witness 'these things' would not perish until all 'these things' are fulfilled. The generation he was speaking to did not witness the 'these things' he was speaking of. Why have you then concluded he was speaking of them?

Furthermore, a failed prediction would be a generation witnessing 'these things' and yet perishing before the 'these things' are fulfilled. Did this happen?

Jesus preached that the kingdom of God was near, right?

Yes

And once it came, do you think he believed any of his followers who were still alive then would have still tasted death even after the kingdom of God had come already?

We first have to establish what the kingdom is and when it came/is to come. Christ did believe that some of his followers would taste death (John 21:18-19).

Isn't the whole kingdom of God thing about being immortal and no longer having to fear death?

Why do you think that?

Cinjin

As previously discussed, Matthew 24/Mark 13/Luke 21 is in response to the questions of the destruction of the temple and the end of the world. Matthew 16 is an explanation of the events of Christ's crucifixion and the coming of the kingdom.

You're assuming the coming of the kingdom is the end of the world. Why?

Hebrews 1:1-2
“Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers
by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son…”

Yes we are living in the 'last days'.

1 Corinthians 10:11
“Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written
down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.”

Yes we are living in the time of the end of the ages.

1 John 2:18
“Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming,
so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.”

Yes, the Antichrist is coming.

Revelation 22:6,7,10,12,20
“And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. “And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book.” And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.“”…

Yes, His words are faithful and true, these things must soon take place, and He is coming quickly.

Notice that Jesus didn’t say “that generation” – which would be the normal way of referring to a future generation. He said “this generation”.

He also didn't say 'our generation'. As has been shown, using the words 'this generation' does not necessitate He was speaking of His generation.

Jesus said that some of his listeners (and the high priest at his trial) would still be alive to see his return to Earth.

His return to earth, or His resurrection?

Obviously not as a historian he was talking about the generation living during the plague. But Jesus was talking in the present tense to the people right there in front of him.

The historian was speaking in present tense to the person right in front of him.

Jesus was referring to this generation standing before him, not some future generation.

No, He was referring to the generation that would see the future events noted in Matthew 24:29-31/Mark13:24-27/Luke21:25-28. It is the future events that qualify 'this generation' not who Jesus was speaking to. Read Mathew 24:29-34 straight through.

What you are saying is disingenuous. It's like Clinton and the definition of "is". Any ordinary reading of the Bible leads to the conclusion that Jesus meant his own generation. Everything else is a weird stretch.

Then why didn't He say 'my generation' or 'our generation', or 'your generation'? He said 'this generation'. I'm not seeking to define the word 'this' I'm seeking to qualify 'this generation'.

[GrandizerII]

No, which is exactly why his prediction was a failure.

Jesus said that the 'this generation' that would witness 'these things' would not perish until all 'these things' are fulfilled. The generation he was speaking to did not witness the 'these things' he was speaking of. Why have you then concluded he was speaking of them?

I honestly don't get what you're asking here exactly. Are you implying that, because a prophecy failed, that therefore it couldn't have been predicted?

It's been shown, time and again, that people end up making false predictions and prophecies. So that sort of logical thinking (if I understood you right) is nowhere close to being reasonable.

Furthermore, a failed prediction would be a generation witnessing 'these things' and yet perishing before the 'these things' are fulfilled. Did this happen?

Yes, it did. They all perished before these things have yet to occur. In fact, they haven't even happened yet.

So false prophecy either way.

We first have to establish what the kingdom is and when it came/is to come. Christ did believe that some of his followers would taste death (John 21:18-19).

Well, it doesn't matter what John says as we're debating what another passage in another book is saying.

From my understanding, Jesus believed death would be no more once the kingdom came. So in light of this understanding, it makes perfect sense that he would say some in his time would not taste death, knowing that Jesus thought the kingdom was near.

Isn't the whole kingdom of God thing about being immortal and no longer having to fear death?

Why do you think that?

Well, partly because that's what Jesus in the Synoptic Gospels implied.

[Minimalist]

As Minimalist said, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John

Not contemporary. In fact, they don't even claim to be contemporary. That shit comes from morons who just can't accept that they've been sold a bill of goods.

[downbeatplumb]

People from the middle ages spotted the "generation" problem and solved it by inventing the wandering Jew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew

The Wandering Jew is a figure whose legend began to spread in Europe in the 13th century.[1]

The original legend concerns a Jew who taunted Jesus on the way to the Crucifixion and was then cursed to walk the earth until the Second Coming.

There you go. There's nothing religion can't solve by piling on more bullshit.

[orangebox21]

I honestly don't get what you're asking here exactly. Are you implying that, because a prophecy failed, that therefore it couldn't have been predicted?

No, sorry for the confusion. No, I'm not implying that this prophecy couldn't have been preached. It was preached, but has not yet been fulfilled.

Furthermore, a failed prediction would be a generation witnessing 'these things' and yet perishing before the 'these things' are fulfilled. Did this happen?

Yes, it did.

No, the generation living at the time of Christ did not witness 'these things'. Therefore they could not have both witnessed 'these things' and perished.

They all perished before these things have yet to occur.

True.

In fact, they haven't even happened yet.

True.

So false prophecy either way.

Nope. A failed prophecy would be a generation witnessing 'these things' and perishing. Not witnessing these things or perishing.

We first have to establish what the kingdom is and when it came/is to come. Christ did believe that some of his followers would taste death (John 21:18-19).

Well, it doesn't matter what John says as we're debating what another passage in another book is saying.

It's relevant to your question about whether or not Jesus believed the people He was speaking to would die. He did.

From my understanding, Jesus believed death would be no more once the kingdom came. So in light of this understanding, it makes perfect sense that he would say some in his time would not taste death, knowing that Jesus thought the kingdom was near.

What scriptural reference led you to this conclusion?

Well, partly because that's what Jesus in the Synoptic Gospels implied.

Where?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

People from the middle ages spotted the "generation" problem and solved it by inventing the wandering Jew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew

The Wandering Jew is a figure whose legend began to spread in Europe in the 13th century.[1]

The original legend concerns a Jew who taunted Jesus on the way to the Crucifixion and was then cursed to walk the earth until the Second Coming.

There you go. There's nothing religion can't solve by piling on more bullshit.

The Wandering Jew is just another English fairy tale.