Differing degrees of rape?

[Losty]

But seriously, isn't the amount of danger you're in a factor? I suspect not, it's a bit like asking "who would you rather be raped by".. slightly obscene question in reality... But should that affect sentencing?

Rape is rape is rape. The circumstances do affect the sentencing. Should they? I don't really think so. Whether or not there were other crimes committed such as assault, battery, kidnapping etc. should affect the sentencing. Statutory rape should be legally separate and not treated the same in my opinion.
In my state A is not rape.
In fact if you changed A to: man drags wife kicking and screaming into bedroom holds her down..penetration...no consent.
That still wouldn't be rape.

[lifesagift]

so is the converse not true also?

I'm just saying that even if it's a fact that they enjoyed part of it, there was more harm done than good. In the long run, drug addiction and repeated rape will destroy someone, even if there's a moment of bliss in there too.

But my OP point is that there are differing degrees of rape.. so if a loving girlfriend is simply(used descriptively) penetrated by her gorgeous randy boyfriend, for 15 seconds whilst she's asleep or drunk, and didn't want sex.... that is an equal crime to a really big, aggressive man, who has a knife and drags a girl into a shed and has full sex with her three times whist waving the knife around her face....????

[Losty]

I'm just saying that even if it's a fact that they enjoyed part of it, there was more harm done than good. In the long run, drug addiction and repeated rape will destroy someone, even if there's a moment of bliss in there too.

But my OP point is that there are differing degrees of rape.. so if a loving girlfriend is simply(used descriptively) penetrated by her gorgeous randy boyfriend, for 15 seconds whilst she's asleep or drunk, and didn't want sex.... that is an equal crime to a really big, aggressive man, who has a knife and drags a girl into a shed and has full sex with her three times whist waving the knife around her face....????

No, one is a crime and the other is several crimes. Both are rape.

[lifesagift]

In fact if you changed A to: man drags wife kicking and screaming into bedroom holds her down..penetration...no consent.
That still wouldn't be rape.

Really?!!!!

Sorry, didn't understand the sense of your post!

[Chad32]

I'm just saying that even if it's a fact that they enjoyed part of it, there was more harm done than good. In the long run, drug addiction and repeated rape will destroy someone, even if there's a moment of bliss in there too.

But my OP point is that there are differing degrees of rape.. so if a loving girlfriend is simply(used descriptively) penetrated by her gorgeous randy boyfriend, for 15 seconds whilst she's asleep or drunk, and didn't want sex.... that is an equal crime to a really big, aggressive man, who has a knife and drags a girl into a shed and has full sex with her three times whist waving the knife around her face....????

I thought you were talking about whether or not she enjoyed it at some point suring the rape. In my first post I said there is a difference between a boyfriend who went a bit too far with the best of intentions and a horny guy raping a stranger while wielding a knife. But if that guy who pulled her into an alley makes her enjoy it at some point, should his sentence be lessened?

Life, Losty was saying that in some parts of the world, a wife is obligated to give her husband sex if he wants. It's sad to know there are places where a woman is considered the property of her husband or father, but there are still people who think that.

[Losty]

Great reply thanks.
I'm in the UK and thinking about a pro footballer who had a smitten, drunken fan in a hotel room.

It's interesting that you mention that the suffering of the victim might be important, because that suggests, potentially the sentencing is on it's head.... what if the abducted rape victim who's been raped for 20 years by her abductor, might actually enjoy some of the sex?

(don't beat me up, I'm pushing boundaries and playing devils advocate in a greatly interesting thread, I'm still on your side on the whole!)

Let me ask you something for a second, how do you think it would feel if you were raped for years? How do you think you would feel if despite the fact that it was awful and traumatizing and you hated it and it was fucking rape you still had an orgasm every time? How do you think you would feel if someone advocated for your rapist to have a lighter sentence based on that you enjoyed it to an extent? Just curious.

Smitten drunken fans don't deserve to be raped either btw.

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In fact if you changed A to: man drags wife kicking and screaming into bedroom holds her down..penetration...no consent.
That still wouldn't be rape.

Really?!!!!

Sorry, didn't understand the sense of your post!

Not giving an opinion. I am saying legally speaking it doesn't count as rape in my state if it's a spouse unless you're not living together.

[Jenny A]

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Most states do differentiate between rapes of various degrees, but the kind of scenarios in this thread are not how they make the distinction. The scenarios discussed in this thread or more like excuses for the perp's behavior. That kind of consideration shows up at sentencing if at all and not in distinguishing between levels of felony.

For first degree rape many states require force with a weapon; or after breaking into a house; or that includes torture or perversion. The age of the victim and whether the victim is mental retarded sometimes also push rape into the first rather than the second degree. Third degree rape usually involves force of the employment or blackmail variety rather than physical force. Sometimes statutory rape is defined as rape in the second or third degree. Sometimes whether statutory rape is 1st or 2nd degree hinges on whether the perp knew or should have known the age of the victim. It all depends on the particular state's law.

I don't think that having 1st through 3rd degree rape belittles the suffering of the victim. It simply acknowledges that bad can be worse.

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Great reply thanks.
I'm in the UK and thinking about a pro footballer who had a smitten, drunken fan in a hotel room.

It's interesting that you mention that the suffering of the victim might be important, because that suggests, potentially the sentencing is on it's head.... what if the abducted rape victim who's been raped for 20 years by her abductor, might actually enjoy some of the sex?

(don't beat me up, I'm pushing boundaries and playing devils advocate in a greatly interesting thread, I'm still on your side on the whole!)

I'm not sure what side you think I'm on. I do think that circumstances should matter is sentencing and it's not unreasonable to differentiate between rape by coercion, rape by force, and rape with a deadly weapon provided they all carry reasonable sentences. Murder comes in various degrees for the same reasons.

But for this: "what if the abducted rape victim who's been raped for 20 years by her abductor, might actually enjoy some of the sex" I might like to slap you around a little. Would it matter if you're the kind of guy who likes getting slapped by a woman? Presuming of course that you didn't consent before hand?

[lifesagift]

But my OP point is that there are differing degrees of rape.. so if a loving girlfriend is simply(used descriptively) penetrated by her gorgeous randy boyfriend, for 15 seconds whilst she's asleep or drunk, and didn't want sex.... that is an equal crime to a really big, aggressive man, who has a knife and drags a girl into a shed and has full sex with her three times whist waving the knife around her face....????

No, one is a crime and the other is several crimes. Both are rape.

I respect your passion in your answer. But I suspect we need to ask women, solely(?), how they feel about a sexual penetration?

But more broadly, let's explore this... I figure a women subconsciously (or even consciously) accepts (in very general terms here) one male to be her sexual partner. And the grey area for me is, if the accepted sexual partners forces sex on the women, it is a crime of greed and disrespect. Whereas, if a man who is not assigned to be the sexual partner forces sex, that is a completely different violation of the lady's personal space and everything thereafter...during the sexual act.
For me, they are so very different.
Any women care to comment?

[Jenny A]

I figure a women subconsciously (or even consciously) accepts (in very general terms here) one male to be her sexual partner. And the grey area for me is, if the accepted sexual partners forces sex on the women, it is a crime of greed and disrespect. Whereas, if a man who is not assigned to be the sexual partner forces sex, that is a completely different violation of the lady's personal space and everything thereafter...during the sexual act.
For me, they are so very different.
Any women care to comment?

Sure, one is violence, the other is violence plus a breach of trust. If that's too glib, I'm sorry. But force is force. And violation is violation.

I do have some sympathy for the usual partner who misreads the signs. We do have a duty communicate our lack of interest.

[rexbeccarox]

Yes. I care to comment. Honestly, I don't give a shit what the circumstances are. If there is no consent given, it's fucking rape and should be punished as such. End of.

This is starting to remind me of the sharking thread, where the victim isn't taken into account at all, rather how much the perpetrator can get away with, with as little punishment as possible.

Have you ever been sexually assaulted, OP? I think probably not, or you wouldn't talk about it so flippantly. "Personal space" doesn't even scratch the surface of the violation that occurs during sexual assault.