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RE: Alcoholics Anonymous and Drug Addiction
October 23, 2014 at 7:44 pm
(This post was last modified: October 23, 2014 at 7:51 pm by Aractus.)
(October 23, 2014 at 11:22 am)Chas Wrote: You can question it, but the AMA calls it a disease. So goddamn what? The Australian Medical Association does not call it a disease, and nor (as far as I can tell) does any other medical authority. WHO proposes that dependence is a disorder (but not addiction).
Grow your limited world-view.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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RE: Alcoholics Anonymous and Drug Addiction
October 23, 2014 at 9:34 pm
been dry for 10 years. I think it might have been easier if i went to AA though. even if you have been dry for 1 day, good job, you can do it.
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RE: Alcoholics Anonymous and Drug Addiction
October 23, 2014 at 9:53 pm
(October 23, 2014 at 9:34 pm)Kowlzer Wrote: been dry for 10 years. I think it might have been easier if i went to AA though. even if you have been dry for 1 day, good job, you can do it. You've been sober for ten years!
I hate the term 'dry' or 'dry-drunk.' As if any other path of recovery leaves you DRY but you do not achieve SOBRIETY. One thing I do agree with AA on is that you should not only abstain from drugs, but you should also actively attempt to change your thinking and behavior so you can live a better life.
And I agree just because the AMA calls something a disease does not make it a disease. And how did the other organizations come to this conclusion? Did they simply follow suit from the AMA? Or did they do their own independent research? Or did they do a study that somehow proves addiction is a disease? Like I said is being a bad driver a disease? Is the compulsion to bite your fingernails a disease? No, that's probably a symptom from sort of anxiety. I think addiction is a SYMPTOM of a much larger issue. Do I see it as a disease though? No not really.
Then again I agree with the idea that those who came to this choice probably know much more than I do so I could be completely wrong.
“Love is the only bow on Life’s dark cloud. It is the morning and the evening star. It shines upon the babe, and sheds its radiance on the quiet tomb. It is the mother of art, inspirer of poet, patriot and philosopher.
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
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RE: Alcoholics Anonymous and Drug Addiction
October 24, 2014 at 12:15 am
Yeah it is true if a recovered alcoholic (or other substance abuser) starts using again they are very susceptible to become instantly addicted again. I think everyone agrees on that.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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RE: Alcoholics Anonymous and Drug Addiction
October 24, 2014 at 1:17 am
(October 23, 2014 at 7:44 pm)Aractus Wrote: (October 23, 2014 at 11:22 am)Chas Wrote: You can question it, but the AMA calls it a disease. So goddamn what? The Australian Medical Association does not call it a disease, and nor (as far as I can tell) does any other medical authority. WHO proposes that dependence is a disorder (but not addiction).
Grow your limited world-view.
Addiction is not a disease? Grow your limited medical knowledge, you pompous ass.
Alcoholism in Australia
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Alcoholics Anonymous and Drug Addiction
October 24, 2014 at 2:40 am
How are we defining 'disease' here?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
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RE: Alcoholics Anonymous and Drug Addiction
October 24, 2014 at 2:47 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2014 at 2:48 am by Aractus.)
(October 24, 2014 at 1:17 am)Chas Wrote: Addiction is not a disease? Grow your limited medical knowledge, you pompous ass.
Alcoholism in Australia And you give me a foreign link???
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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RE: Alcoholics Anonymous and Drug Addiction
October 24, 2014 at 10:18 pm
And while many medical organizations may call something a disease, is their opinion absolute truth?
Is being a bad driver a disease? What if bad driving habits are genetic? What if the anxiety that is related to bad driving is genetic? I am not a medical professional but regardless I can say that the disease model for addiction does not make sense to me. Beyond that I have no say because the medical professionals that have come to this conclusion know more than me.
But it makes more sense to me that addiction is a SYMPTOM of a much larger psychological and possibly physiological issue... but does that make it a disease??? I don't know, all I can say is it makes no sense to me.
“Love is the only bow on Life’s dark cloud. It is the morning and the evening star. It shines upon the babe, and sheds its radiance on the quiet tomb. It is the mother of art, inspirer of poet, patriot and philosopher.
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
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RE: Alcoholics Anonymous and Drug Addiction
October 24, 2014 at 10:24 pm
(October 24, 2014 at 10:18 pm)smithers Wrote: And while many medical organizations may call something a disease, is their opinion absolute truth?
Is being a bad driver a disease? What if bad driving habits are genetic? What if the anxiety that is related to bad driving is genetic? I am not a medical professional but regardless I can say that the disease model for addiction does not make sense to me. Beyond that I have no say because the medical professionals that have come to this conclusion know more than me.
But it makes more sense to me that addiction is a SYMPTOM of a much larger psychological and possibly physiological issue... but does that make it a disease??? I don't know, all I can say is it makes no sense to me.
Your medical training is ... ?
Your definition of a disease is ... ?
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Alcoholics Anonymous and Drug Addiction
October 25, 2014 at 12:13 am
Aa is just a support mechanism, because what is really needed especially in the way of hard drugs and heavy drinking is a complete life style change. Because everything you did from how you processed positive input to how you coped with negativity, to your friends, to how you related with your family, co workers and even the type of job you have.. Basically any and everything you did on your own and with the people you have surrounding you, has lead to your substance abuse. The drug or drink of your choice is how (when left to your own devises) you process the sum total of your daily experience. This has to change, and the only way that it will is if you get rid of EVERYTHING in your life that has brought you to your substance of choice. For this the vast majority of people out there need support. And to ask family or friends (who aren't part of the problem will be a rare find) is flat out not fair. It is beyond a tall order if they are not already involved with your life,( and if they are they are disqualified..) to ask them to support all the wild emotions durning such a transition in everything you know while you are fighting your body who wants your drug of choice.
However there are the 1.9% who don't need anything or anyone. Why? Not because they are better than everyone, it's because they are not a product of their environment. They drink or party because that is who they are and what they will to do. They are not affected by their enviromemt they infect their environment. They are the cancer, that is killing everyone around them. Meaning they themselves are the sole reason they drink or do drugs. For them, they still need some help, but not to the degree of everyone else does. When these people are ready they will quit pretty much on their own.
Then there is the .1%ers.. These people have friends and family pray for them, and God decides to send some idiot in to get them, and rather than do AA, because someone's drug dealer see the meetings as oppertunity to sell more product, and because she keeps meeting her other looser friends there and they get into trouble.. The .1%ers and new husband beat their heads against the wall of sobriety and relaps for 5 years till one of them OD's in a barns and noble bathroom, and an ambulance is called to revive her.. Take her to the hospital release her, and a month later the county sees fit to arrest her at 3am.. Then and only then Does the .1%er hit bottom because she has burned through all the patience her family had in a 10 year period, and all her new husband had only after 5 years... After she gets out and does her state mandated stuff ms .1% never looked back..
But, even in her case everything she was (worked, lived, stores she visited, friends and family,) all had to change. People don't generally make those changes unless they have hella support. Or they are just assholes who drink and or do drugs, just to f-up everyone else around them.
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